wlau

Because of the pandemic, I only restarted frequent flying (to Asia) in Q3 when Asia was reopened. I lost my DM status and DL didn't do any courtesy extension for those of us that were Asia-heavy flyers that had a different pandemic-reopening schedule than Europe... even as MM. Unfortunately, I couldn't jam enough flying in 1 quarter to hit GM, so I dropped to SM. As such, I paid for SkyClub membership for 2023 so I can sort out future selection of primary airline, and partly because Haneda has became a quasi travel hub for me and it has a SkyClub. The rules went into effect clearly indicate I can access the club with same-day ticketed flights on DL or eligible partners' flight. It makes no specific indication the partner flight has to be marketed or ticketed by DL. The only call out is Hawaiian's flight has to be marketed by DL. I had a CI flight out of HND and the SC staff refused me entry, against clearly stated entry policy. I showed them DL's policy and they don't seem to understand the finer details of these things.

In their mind, they think my access is based on STEP status and expect CI to generate an invitation so DL can charge CI for my visit. But because I am not a STEP now, CI isn't going to generate an invite. My point is I hold membership, so I am accessing via membership and per rule that same-day ticketed flight, operated by an eligible partner. I had a similar access out of JFK while flying a different ST partner flight that was not ticketed by DL and had no issue.

SC access is becoming increasingly difficult and beyond common sense and logic. If DL wants SC to be a credit card club, then they can make it so. Selling membership but then break their own rules are just unreasonable.

RealHJ

Why pay for SC membership? That's like throwing money down the drain, esp. given Delta's next to non-existent presence in Asia. Just get Priority Pass or Lounge Key, if you don't already have it through a credit card or other means..

That being said, there's no excuse for what DL is doing based on how you describe it.

xliioper

OP's case is the one where it can make some sense to have a membership as access rules for those are considerably more liberal than Amex Plat (DL operated only + DL-coded WS flights) and DL Amex Reserve (DL operated or DL marketed partner flights only). Agree with OP that HND does not seem to be following DL's stated access rules (which lists only HA partner as an exception).

VFR

Write in to DL and they may through some miles your way and review the problem with the HND Sky Club staff.

The fact each method of entry comes with different entry rules on partners creates a problem. I actually recently chose to fly BR instead of CI on HND-TSA because of the lack of Sky Club access in HND as both a STE+ and Amex Platinum holder.

wlau

Really? CI pax can have access to JAL's lounge or DAL's. I have been in JAL's multiple times before the pandemic because of STEP and reversed being true in TSA's lounge.

I am disappointed by how poorly DL train their SC staff. DL changes rules repeatedly and expect paid passengers and members to comply, yet it can't train its employees correctly. The issue is really AMEX card holders. Visit after visit, the crowding are from AMEX holder that are not frequent DL flyers.

VFR

The reciprocal lounge agreements between CI and JL are poorly documented. At the time I had *G and the NH lounge was nice.

WillBarrett_68

your complaint is about the membership access rules, which have nothing to do with the credit card rules. Even if DL had no credit card access methods you would still be having this issue. Trying to link the two just makes it harder to understand the complaint.

WillBarrett_68

You are crowding the lounge exactly as much as a person using a credit card to access. And if they're not "frequent" then they aren't really using the lounge very often compared to people who fly all the time (honestly I don't see what difference their frequency makes anyway other than to make an illogical appeal to excluding someone who accesses the club in a method different than I do).

FWIW, since you're a silver, I would advise you NOT to go around denigrating "infrequent" flyers.

wlau

You must not have read my previous post. I was DM for many years and a MM. The pandemic paused my travel. I was/am Asia-heavy and the frequent flying wasn't possible until October of 2022. I am now traveling at the rate as before except I am holding last year's status. I was a tad below GM and that amount of flying was done in Oct-Dec, which means my pace was on track to hit at least PM if not DM. UA extended my Asia-heavy coworkers status but DL didn't extend it to its Asia-frequent passengers. DL used Europe as benchmark on when things re-opened and only extended until then.

Lounge has always been a tool for passenger retention and make it a bit more comfortable for connecting flights. DL SC crowding wasn't from GM/PM/DM doing international flights or have membership. After the recent rule change, I barely notice any decrease in traffic. The lines outside of SC was barely any shorter. When I spoke to SC attendants at different locations, they told me AMEX card holder is the predominate method of accessing the lounge. DL removed STEP access for its own frequent flyers but still allow it for other partner airlines. All that mess later, that's why I decided to buy membership this year. If I don't plan to fly frequently in 2023, I would not have bought the membership. Membership has rules and DL SC didn't adhere to them, and they didn't know how to look for the rule. I don't see how any of this could be on me. Accessing through SC membership is no different than accessing with credit card, i.e., AMEX.

HND has many regional airline options. I stayed in ST and bought ST partner flights because I have SC membership. At the way DL is going, why bother stay loyal to any airline or any alliance?

steveholt

I sympathize with the staff not correctly knowing the rules, but without AMEX or their cardholders, you would not have a Delta lounge to sit in or a Delta airline to complain to.

GagaPilot

Sorry that the lounge staff didn’t correctly allow you entry with a paid membership. But Amex cardholders have just as much right to enter via their method as yours.

And FWIW, Delta offered generous ways to keep status back in 2020/2021 that rolled over into 2022. There were tons of accelerator programs that you could have flown to maintain DM with to destinations other than Asia.

pt360

First, it is unfortunate that you had the experience you did and I heavily agree that you should call and or file a written complaint about the access you did not get. Delta needs to know when SC staff are not knowledgeable.

Second, I am an Amex Plat (non Delta) holder since around 2017 or so, and the biggest reason I got the card was specifically Sky Club access for Delta. I travelled recreationally quite a bit those years and now that I travel weekly for work on Delta or UA, that card is the sole reason I will stretch my schedule to fly Delta more. All that to say, my fee and the fact that I have a card that drives me to fly Delta, helps pay for all "your" skyclubs, especially as the network continues to expand.

It's extremely distasteful to judge people who don't fly weekly or monthly for the three times they or guests use a Skyclub. The traffic at a few major hubs in the US has gotten much more alleviated with the new clubs (new MSP lounge is a phenomenal example) and your edge case does not indicate a major failing in the system.

Lighten up, file a complaint, and stop looking down on other people when a company is not executing right.

wlau

I do most of my travel for work and when I am on vacation, the last thing I want to do is getting into a plane. I am in tech, so most of my travel is to Asia. Just because DL had accelerators, it doesn't mean I just go to Europe weekly for no reason. Asia (Japan, Korea, Taiwan) only reopened in Oct 2022 without severe restrictions or with enough flight frequency, and China only just a couple of months ago this year. I agree DL was nice enough to do rollover earlier in the pandemic. What I am saying is that those rollover schedules and considerations were very much driven by when Europe reopened. Bus travel died out in the US as many industries WFH. DL's approach had minimal to zero consideration for Asia-heavy travelers. My coworkers that use United, JAL, ANA, CI, EVA all had their status extended through end of 2023.

I am fortunate enough to have used lounges in Asia (via other methods or coworkers on the same flight). Those lounges also accept and are partly supported by credit cards, BUT, they make it a priority for their frequent flyers and direct membership holders. DL prioritize AMEX cardholders. At the end of day, we are talking about SkyClub... NOT Centurion lounge, Chase lounge or Capital One lounge.

wlau

You paid for your AMEX and I paid for SkyClub, same difference. Having SC membership also drive me to fly Delta and put up with its long and multiple connections as well. This is the same for all of us. The issue I have is the refused access even though the rule specifically said it's permissible. It would be like you go to a SC and they turn you away and not give you a valid reason.

I can respect you are sensitive to that you paid AMEX card annual mainly to access SC. What I am saying is that AMEX was always a part of the picture. Before the pandemic, the crowding issue was nothing like now. Delta went all in and oversold AMEX access to SC during the pandemic and now they are penalizing their own frequent flyers and those hold SC membership.

VFR

wlau please write in to Delta – I suspect it will make it to the HND SkyClub management and they will retrain the agents. They also might send you a few miles as compensation.

I suspect the most recent round of Sky Club changes will come back to bite Delta in the blubber at some point, especially if there is another economic downturn, because they cut benefits for more enfranchised customers (Medallions, Sky Club members) in favor of less enfranchised customers (Amex Platinum cardholders). If you are predominantly an international flyer the benefits of DL status don't seem particularly attractive without Sky Club access.

For better or for worse, I don't think Delta is going to cut Sky Club access for Amex Platinum cardholders – I have conjectured multiple times on FT that they make more money on card access than Sky Club members (and potentially GM/PM/DM, at least from a strict accounting view). The answer to me has always seemed to be build larger lounges (e.g. the new ORD lounge), build alternate class lounges (e.g. upcoming LAX, JFK business class lounges, Centurion lounges in ATL, JFK, etc.), and invest in alternate experiences that still capture visitor revenue (e.g. JFK grab-and-go). If you are have business and a partner like Amex wants to give you incremental revenue and profit, you let them.