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-   -   EU261 on a codeshare (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/2117672-eu261-codeshare.html)

CowGirlMoo Apr 6, 2023 8:26 am

EU261 on a codeshare
 
Which airline do you file an EU261 claim with on a codeshare?

We had a return flight booked with Delta FLR - AMS (KLM operated flight) and AMS - DTW (Delta operated flight). The KLM flight at FLR was cancelled and we were bussed to BLQ later in the day to take a KLM flight to AMS. We stayed overnight in AMS and took a Delta flight back to DTW the following day.

Do I file an EU261 claim with Delta since I purchased the tickets from them, or with KLM, since it was their cancelled flight that caused us to arrive back in the US a day later than scheduled?

TIA!

onebobobo Apr 6, 2023 11:18 am

In my experience, you file the claim with the operating airline (KLM) and not the marketing airline (Delta). My two datapoints are significant delays on flights operated by ITA and AF while on a Delta ticket.

woodenshoe101 Apr 6, 2023 12:29 pm

Default for claims is always with the operating carrier, in OP's case should be the final operating carrier (which if i read correctly is DL).

CowGirlMoo Apr 6, 2023 12:52 pm

Thank you!

DirektornSE Apr 7, 2023 6:35 am

I'm always filing against the revenue airline, i.e. the one where you bought your ticket. In your case Delta
Was your entire itinerary on one ticket?

EU261 only apply for European Airlines but I guess its worth a shot as one leg was with a European Carrier.

woodenshoe101 Apr 7, 2023 6:48 am


Originally Posted by DirektornSE (Post 35150916)

EU261 only apply for European Airlines but I guess its worth a shot as one leg was with a European Carrier.

That is not accurate.
It applies to European carriers at all times, but it also applies to non-European carriers on trips that depart from the EU. The fact that OP had a leg on both KL and DL on their ticket (and that KL was the original cause of the delay) is not relevant - when a EU261-qualified delay happens (on a single ticket with multiple carriers), you file with the operating carrier that got you to your final destination (DL may send the bill to KL for this one). If it had been a DL codeshare on a KL operated AMS-DTW, KL would have been the target to file with.

mridley2 Apr 7, 2023 10:31 am


Originally Posted by woodenshoe101 (Post 35150943)
That is not accurate.
It applies to European carriers at all times, but it also applies to non-European carriers on trips that depart from the EU. The fact that OP had a leg on both KL and DL on their ticket (and that KL was the original cause of the delay) is not relevant - when a EU261-qualified delay happens (on a single ticket with multiple carriers), you file with the operating carrier that got you to your final destination (DL may send the bill to KL for this one). If it had been a DL codeshare on a KL operated AMS-DTW, KL would have been the target to file with.

I can certify that this appears accurate. I am still dealing with an issue form an air france delayed flight last year but Delta was the final carrier (CDG-JFK). See the other thread over at air france. link below. We assumed we should file EU261 claim with operating carrier but in this case Delta was the final carrier. And it was a Delta marketed flight. We used Delta skymiles for the entire round JFK-CDG-SEZ.

https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/air-...-18-hours.html

DirektornSE Apr 7, 2023 10:48 am


Originally Posted by woodenshoe101 (Post 35150943)
That is not accurate.
It applies to European carriers at all times, but it also applies to non-European carriers on trips that depart from the EU. The fact that OP had a leg on both KL and DL on their ticket (and that KL was the original cause of the delay) is not relevant - when a EU261-qualified delay happens (on a single ticket with multiple carriers), you file with the operating carrier that got you to your final destination (DL may send the bill to KL for this one). If it had been a DL codeshare on a KL operated AMS-DTW, KL would have been the target to file with.

The EU261 applies to operating air carriers only. For example, you purchased your tickets from Lufthansa, an EU airline, for a flight to Europe from the United States. However, the operating air carrier is its codeshare partner, United Airlines. Since the flight is on a non-EU carrier and is terminating in the EU, it would not be covered under EU261. If your flight was operated by Lufthansa, regardless of whether you purchased your ticket from United Airlines or Lufthansa, your flight would qualify under EU261.
https://consumerrescue.org/guides/eu...e-europe-trip/

But I'm happy to be corrected, I do not live in the US and have only once in my lifetime used EU261
OP speaks about the RETURN trip, it's still a US originating flight on a non-eu airline. I do not know if that qualifies for EU261

wrp96 Apr 7, 2023 11:31 am

EC261 is filed with the operating airline that caused the delay. In the OPs case, the delay was caused by the delay to KLM so that’s who they would file with. If the delay had been on the DL operated leg from AMS, then DL would be responsible.

woodenshoe101 Apr 7, 2023 11:38 am


Originally Posted by DirektornSE (Post 35151550)
The EU261 applies to operating air carriers only. For example, you purchased your tickets from Lufthansa, an EU airline, for a flight to Europe from the United States. However, the operating air carrier is its codeshare partner, United Airlines. Since the flight is on a non-EU carrier and is terminating in the EU, it would not be covered under EU261. If your flight was operated by Lufthansa, regardless of whether you purchased your ticket from United Airlines or Lufthansa, your flight would qualify under EU261.
https://consumerrescue.org/guides/eu...e-europe-trip/

But I'm happy to be corrected, I do not live in the US and have only once in my lifetime used EU261
OP speaks about the RETURN trip, it's still a US originating flight on a non-eu airline. I do not know if that qualifies for EU261

The fact that the entire trip started in the US does not matter. For the purposes of EU261, the outbound and inbound directions are separate events (each direction has its own origin and termination point). If you fly outbound US>EU EU261 applies if the operating carrier is EU based (not if DL). On the return EU>US (which is the OP's case) EU261 applies regardless if DL or KL is the operator.

(Also this point that EU-originating flights are covered even on non-EU airlines was not in the original EU261 rule. It was added/amended later based on court rulings)

hhdl Apr 7, 2023 7:07 pm


Originally Posted by woodenshoe101 (Post 35151655)
The fact that the entire trip started in the US does not matter. For the purposes of EU261, the outbound and inbound directions are separate events (each direction has its own origin and termination point). If you fly outbound US>EU EU261 applies if the operating carrier is EU based (not if DL). On the return EU>US (which is the OP's case) EU261 applies regardless if DL or KL is the operator.

(Also this point that EU-originating flights are covered even on non-EU airlines was not in the original EU261 rule. It was added/amended later based on court rulings)

OP's case is non-EU (SEZ) to non-EU (JFK), which is a trip to which EU261 no longer applies (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...%3A62020CJ0451 which ruled last year that connecting in the EU on an EU carrier is not sufficient for EU261 to apply).

woodenshoe101 Apr 7, 2023 9:19 pm


Originally Posted by hhdl (Post 35152604)
OP's case is non-EU (SEZ) to non-EU (JFK), which is a trip to which EU261 no longer applies (see https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...%3A62020CJ0451 which ruled last year that connecting in the EU on an EU carrier is not sufficient for EU261 to apply).

I think you’re looking at the wrong thread? OP here is talking about FLR and BLQ which are most definitely EU.

flyerCO Apr 8, 2023 1:24 am


Originally Posted by woodenshoe101 (Post 35150943)
That is not accurate.
It applies to European carriers at all times, but it also applies to non-European carriers on trips that depart from the EU. The fact that OP had a leg on both KL and DL on their ticket (and that KL was the original cause of the delay) is not relevant - when a EU261-qualified delay happens (on a single ticket with multiple carriers), you file with the operating carrier that got you to your final destination (DL may send the bill to KL for this one). If it had been a DL codeshare on a KL operated AMS-DTW, KL would have been the target to file with.

From what i understand This isn't correct/ but also isn't incorrect. The operating carrier of delayed flight is the one should file with to begin. However a recent EU court ruling said a passenger could go after the otherwise non-qualifying airline that operated a flight on behalf of other airline. (A codeshare) Thus if bought say KL coded ATL-AMS-FLR with ATL-AMS on DL metal and ATL-AMS was delayed/cancelled, DL could be made to pay because flight was sold as KL.

The problem with EC261 is how <insert choice word> it has become due to court rulings. It has expanded way past its original intent. It has just about no limits anymore.

CowGirlMoo Apr 10, 2023 8:26 pm

Thank you everyone for your responses. I am, however, just as confused as before whether I should file an EU261 claim with KLM (the codeshare airline with the cancelled flight that caused the 24 hour delay back to the US) or with Delta (where I purchased the roundtrip ticket: DTW - ATL - FCO to Europe all on Delta metal) and FLR - AMS - DTW back to the US ( FLR - AMS was supposed to be on KLM, eventually ended up being BLQ - AMS on KLM, then AMS - DTW on Delta,

flyerCO Apr 10, 2023 11:42 pm


Originally Posted by CowGirlMoo (Post 35159887)
Thank you everyone for your responses. I am, however, just as confused as before whether I should file an EU261 claim with KLM (the codeshare airline with the cancelled flight that caused the 24 hour delay back to the US) or with Delta (where I purchased the roundtrip ticket: DTW - ATL - FCO to Europe all on Delta metal) and FLR - AMS - DTW back to the US ( FLR - AMS was supposed to be on KLM, eventually ended up being BLQ - AMS on KLM, then AMS - DTW on Delta,

File with KLM as it was the KLM flight that was delayed and caused issue. Only if KLM fails to handle properly (doubtful in this type of case) theb file with DL.


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