Adelphos

I’m seeing this bird pop up on more of my routes out of JFK and LAX. I actually think it is adequate for most transcons but it isn’t for this JFK to HNL route I’m on right now, nor is it for Europe. The A321 neo or whatever isn’t really an answer for these kinds of trips either, from what I can tell. It was cool flying A330s, B764s to and from JFK pretty consistently during the Covid era, but looks lIke that isn’t coming back either. Is Delta really going to be using these planes for another 10.15, 20 years? The 787 is sorely needed…

Jeff767

The 767 is a great airframe. Passengers only care about the interiors. I can’t tell you how many times I have had passengers comment on the nice new airplane that was actually 23 years old after getting a new interior. That said Delta sold a block of 767’s to FedEx and has no plans to keep the remaining aircraft past 2030 with 2027 mentioned as the likely end of service.
Phasing out the 757 presents a different set of problems as there is nothing in production that can match its performance out of challenging airports like STT, DCA, LGA, SNA ect… The solution at several airlines has been to simply drop the size of the aircraft. This causes a large seat reduction and increases pricing. Since challenging airports tend to be slot or gate constrained competition can’t restrain the price increase. STT is an example. 10 years ago it was wall to wall 757’s. Now it tends to be mostly A319’s and 737-700’s with Delta being the exception. 259 dollar airfares on American roundtrip from STT now start at 600 plus.

Adelphos

In terms of the 767, is Delta just going to dramatically decide low flat capacity by replacing the planes with something like rhe A321neo? Doesn’t make much intuitive sense.

NYC Flyer

Most of the speculation I've seen concludes that DL will order more A330-900s/A350-900s, and maybe A350-1000s for international, with A321neos not anticipated to fly overseas. Until/unless a new smaller widebody is offered, nonstop destinations that cannot support the A330/764 may ultimately be terminated and left to partner connections via AMS/CDG.

How does LGA fit here, given the 764 (and previously DC10 and L1011) were designed with LGA operations specifically in mind? I don't know aircract specs, but I cannot imagine that the A321 is less efficient than a 757 at LGA.

Adelphos

Gotta get those orders in soon. 2027 isn't that far away. Hard to imagine that in 2027/2028, we will have fewer wide body / D1 / lie flat opportunities than we do today on Delta...

NYC Flyer

Always a possibility that opportunistic acquisitions of used aircraft augment the fleet more quickly (especially when speaking of DL), but it seems doubtful a new type like the 787 would be introduced.

WillBarrett_68

I don't think there are many gates at LGA in the current config that can fit a widebody.

dw

Isn't there a plan for some of the A321neos to be configured with D1 and PS? Could see some of the transcon routes out of JFK operated by those (with a corresponding decrease in capacity).

NYC Flyer

I don't think DL needs/wants to use them at the moment, but still leaves the question as to why 757s are uniquely suited for LGA ops (vs 739/A321) given that widebodies were used economically in the past.

lindros2

Wish the 797 existed - whatever Boeing was going to call the 757 replacement...

In the late 90s, airlines (i.e. Continental) temporarily flew 757's from NYC > EU (Amsterdam, Dusseldorf, etc.) while waiting for their 767-200/400 (the final straw with the DC-10's falling apart was the Concorde accident at CDG due to a piece of a DC-10).

In any case, a real Boeing competitor for the A321 - not 737MAX - would be nice.

Otherwise we'll lumber on with 767's, which - in 2023 - are pretty terrible. Even the refurb 767-400s (~2019) are showing excessive age.

Adelphos

Yes - plans were leaked for many of the A321 news to be configured with D1 and PS. Here are some of my concerns/comments there:

1) There are going to be 16 D1 seats on the A321 versus 26 or so on the 763 - is Delta really going to cut D1 capacity on routes like JFK to LAX? I know American (the main competitor) is also changing by retiring their A321-T planes, but it still seems suboptimal to cut capacity on that route, along with some of the European routes the 763 still flies

2) Having flown on the A321Neo, the plane simply seems a bit narrow for these routes. I am not a big fan of the current domestic F seats on the bird. Maybe the 1X1 layouts will be a big improvement, but so far the plane seems just OK to me (at least in the way Delta has configured it so far)

Yellowjj

The A321neo D1 configuration is scheduled to replace the 757 D1 frames only on a one to one basis.

Delta was salivating at the MOM proposal Boeing showed them with Ed saying they were ready to place a firm order as soon as Boeing gave the green light. Nothing seems to have changed much there; as Delta waits to see what Boeing will eventually offer. They have already gone on record saying narrowbody ops over the Atlantic was not in the cards for them as they like to carry cargo. Yet the 339neo is simply too big/heavy to replace the 763 on most routes and the A338neo is pretty much dead and 3 feet buried at this point. Delta doesn't seem interested in more 332's and with only 11 in the fleet, they don't seem to be considered a viable option.

There is no true 763 replacement currently and I honestly think the 788 might be the most suitable alternative in the current field of new aircraft; if Boeing decides to not do anything.

james318

NWA did this as well in the early 2000's out of Detroit. I think there were two or three routes launched, but the only one I can remember is DTW-DUS. I also remember it was a big deal as these 757's were retrofitted with winglets to give them the range. This was the first I learned of this term.

Quick search revealed this was the original DTW-Europe 757 ops. Of course, DTW-AMS also had widebodies.

DTW-AMS
DTW-BRU
DTW-DUS
BOS-AMS
EWR-AMS
BDL-AMS

mersk862

It's a performance issue. The 757 is basically the airplane equivalent of a sports car - there's a lot of power in those engines. The 321 and 739 aren't nearly as powerful as a 757. With LGA's 7000 foot runway, you're more likely to be able to operate at full payload on a hot day than a 321/739.

Now, given that DL's mainline network out of LGA is basically all <1200 mile flights, the 321/739 doesn't make much of a difference. But there's a reason why LGA-DEN will normally just stay on the 738 vs an A321/739 - a 1600 mile westbound route of a short runway is going to operate better on the 738.

JAXPax

There are several gates at LGA amongst the terminals that can be used for a widebody. They are indicated on the ramp usually with a dashed lead-in line and labeled whatever gate number "A." Using them involves either using the adjacent gate not at all or for RJ-size aircraft while occupied.