Delta daytime transatlantic flights?

Old Oct 19, 2022, 10:35 am
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Delta daytime transatlantic flights?

Back in October 2019, Delta announced it would be adding a daytime JFK-LHR flight. https://news.delta.com/delta-continu...trans-atlantic

Obviously, that didn't happen. Other airlines currently offer this option, including Virgin, but I'm sure many would rather fly Delta metal. I don't fly Delta One, and Comfort Plus is difficult for me to sleep on an overnight flight. Hate arriving in the morning.

Any thoughts on if you think this might happen? And why or why not? Delta wouldn't have many transit passengers making connections in London. And a 10am flight would allow for plenty of connections at JFK to the flight from the early bank. Just have to keep a plane in London overnight.
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 10:42 am
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Originally Posted by pfreet
Any thoughts on if you think this might happen? And why or why not? Delta wouldn't have many transit passengers making connections in London. And a 10am flight would allow for plenty of connections at JFK to the flight from the early bank. Just have to keep a plane in London overnight.
Keeping a plane in London to rest overnight is a problem for DL since it minimizes the number of revenue-earning hours squeezed out of the equipment in the course of trying to maximize revenue and earnings for a reportable quarter.
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 10:43 am
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I think if Delta thought the market could support it profitably they would have a flight or Virgin would add a 2nd. As Delta and Virgin are in a JV it really doesn't matter to Delta which company flies it (short of other considerations like contractual issues with pilots).

I imagine with Virgin, BA/AA and UA offering daytime flights they just don't feel the need.
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 11:20 am
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I love the daylight flight to LHR from JFK on VS. Would be great to see it on DL metal. BOS-LHR is another one where it could work (VS was doing that pre-Covid IIRC).
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 11:23 am
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Originally Posted by GUWonder
Keeping a plane in London to rest overnight is a problem for DL since it minimizes the number of revenue-earning hours squeezed out of the equipment in the course of trying to maximize revenue and earnings for a reportable quarter.
I get that, but strangely, carriers don't hesitate to let multiple planes sit idle in South America for 12-14 hours after overnight flights down -- which is something I have never understood from a utilization standpoint.
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 11:30 am
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Originally Posted by Robert Leach
I get that, but strangely, carriers don't hesitate to let multiple planes sit idle in South America for 12-14 hours after overnight flights down -- which is something I have never understood from a utilization standpoint.
I too don’t get why it worked out for the likes of my US-EZE flights but not in Europe, the US and Asia. Maybe cargo aspects and plenty of space to leave a plane sitting for lots of hours for relatively cheap ground servicing fees?
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 11:41 am
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I have frequently flown to LHR on daytime flights over the past 20+ years from YYZ, ORD, JFK, BOS and IAD. I go to bed by 1-2am and wake up 8-9am with no jet lag. I know it makes no sense for any connections but Im surprised more people dont do this.
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 11:51 am
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A daylight flight to Europe is considerably less popular for many pax (especially business travelers) because it is a wasted day on the airplane. Many pax (both business and leisure) cant afford or dont want to lose a day with this schedule
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 12:09 pm
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So if you want a daytime flight, just fly VS. Great product, why not? I certainly would not go out of my way to fly DL over VS? Or, BA/AA/UA all offer competitive service.

It works for BA/VS as they can operate a late evening flight to NYC from LHR and then overnight the aircraft, fly it back to LHR and then send it out again on a very late evening departure from LHR to JNB for example. This keeps utilization high.

DL does not have such an option. UA takes the penalty to offer such a flight to be competitive. AA operates seasonally, but returns that hull to NYC early from LHR which they can do with all the BA feed - still not great optimization but not terrible.

The comparison to deep SA is not applicable. The flight times are dramatically longer allowing for better utilization overall. Crews can be turned same day. And most importantly, there is ZERO desire by anyone (esp business pax) for a painfully long day time flight. There is no option (due to time zones and elapsed time) for a Europe-US red eye....
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 1:31 pm
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There used to be some daytime flights between deep South America and the US, but they had less staying power than overnight flights each way. The staying power of daytime US to Europe flights is on the relatively low side too. Not only do many people not prefer to “loose” as many daytime hours flying between the continents, many also seem to prefer to avoid the extra hotel night expense and feel more comfortable arriving at their destination during daylight hours when they may feel more comfortable on arrival and have more/better ground transport options.
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 2:05 pm
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Originally Posted by mizzou miles
There is no option (due to time zones and elapsed time) for a Europe-US red eye....
I flew AM MEX-MAD and MAD-MEX on the return. Both directions were a red-eye but it only works for that route given the length of the flights. Departure from MAD was about 11:30pm and arrival at MEX was about 5:00am, so it wouldn't work for most TATL flights. I'm not sure of the flight time between LHR and LAX, but is it possible a red-eye could work there?

I gotta say that both flights were fantastic - I arrived very well-rested. I'd def take a westbound red-eye again if the flight was long enough to warrant it.
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 2:08 pm
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Originally Posted by Robert Leach
I get that, but strangely, carriers don't hesitate to let multiple planes sit idle in South America for 12-14 hours after overnight flights down -- which is something I have never understood from a utilization standpoint.
If they went down and back in the same 24 hour period, wouldnt that require 2 planes for the route to offer 2x daily service in each direction? Maybe not enough demand to support 2x daily and therefore cheaper to leave plane 12 hours. Does this mean the same crew brings it back after daytime rest or do they still staff a new crew for the return flight ~15 hours later?

PLANE A
11pm JFK - GRU
11am GRU - JFK

PLANE B
11pm GRU - JFK
11am JFK - GRU
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 2:16 pm
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Originally Posted by ClipperDelta
A daylight flight to Europe is considerably less popular for many pax (especially business travelers) because it is a wasted day on the airplane. Many pax (both business and leisure) cant afford or dont want to lose a day with this schedule
I have never understood this concept. I feel so bad getting off a plane in Europe (even after flying J) having daylight strike your eyes when your brain is not expecting it. The thought of being remotely productive from a business perspective, or remotely interested in tourism, in that state is a concept that just escapes me. My approach is to take the daylight flight to London, acclimate there for 1-2 days, then go out of City Airport (or take the train) to wherever else in Europe I want to go.

The other advantage of this is that I can actually tolerate Premium Economy for six hours during the daytime JFK-LHR.
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 2:25 pm
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Originally Posted by PHL
If they went down and back in the same 24 hour period, wouldn’t that require 2 planes for the route to offer 2x daily service in each direction? Maybe not enough demand to support 2x daily and therefore cheaper to leave plane 12 hours. Does this mean the same crew brings it back after daytime rest or do they still staff a new crew for the return flight ~15 hours later?

PLANE A
11pm JFK - GRU
11am GRU - JFK

PLANE B
11pm GRU - JFK
11am JFK - GRU
The US airlines’ crews which I would see in EZE at least would either stay long enough in Argentina or otherwise take a break such that it was a new crew working the return flights to the US when I would pair my morning arrival into EZE from the US with same day evening departures back to the US. I was also under the impression that some of the US airlines also had some South American based FAs whom would be weaved into the schedules. Not sure what the state of that is in recent years.
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Last edited by GUWonder; Oct 19, 2022 at 2:31 pm
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Old Oct 19, 2022, 4:48 pm
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Aeromexico has been doing MEX-GRU-MEX as a night flight out, day flight in for as long as I can remember. It's a 9 hr flight and mostly business pax. MEX-EZE is day flight on the way out, night flight on the way back.

Given the distance is similar as a flight from IAH or MIA, I'm not sure why US airlines don't do it.
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