Go Back  FlyerTalk Forums > Miles&Points > Airlines and Mileage Programs > Delta Air Lines | SkyMiles
Reload this Page >

"Turbulence" resulting in no in-flight service

"Turbulence" resulting in no in-flight service

Old Oct 19, 2022, 10:01 am
  #46  
FlyerTalk Evangelist
 
Join Date: Nov 2014
Location: MSP
Programs: DL PM, UA Gold, WN, Global Entry; +others wherever miles/points are found
Posts: 14,209
Originally Posted by Lav Inspector
Understood, but the program that the DL pilots use has all that information and then some. Between Delta’s own meteorology department, the dispatchers, and the flight crews, along with all the tools provided to them, this isn’t a lack of resources that is the issue. My point is many times these decisions, while often made on the side of conservatism, isn’t just made because of laziness but because of data presented to them and with safety in mind.*

*not to say laziness may not present itself at times.
Also, in addition to forecasts and maps, basically every time a flight is transferred between center controllers there is a very brief chat about the turbulence (or lack thereof) just experienced and what others have reported ahead. The flight crew generally have very up-to-date information and even then it's not always terribly reliable - it is rather common for a flight 10-15 min ahead to report moderate chop on descent and then the next flight to feel little to nothing. Weather changes and moves around.
findark is online now  
Old Oct 21, 2022, 8:34 am
  #47  
 
Join Date: Mar 2005
Location: West of CLE
Programs: Delta DM/3 MM; Hertz PC; National EE; Amtrak GR; Bonvoy Silver; Via Rail Prfrence
Posts: 5,328
I was on a CLE-ATL-PHX trip in F on 9/28/22, the same day that Hurricane Ian was about to hit southwest Florida, but was really nowhere near the routes I was flying. The first flight left CLE around 1500. There was no PDB service. As the taxi out to the runway began, the captain came on the horn and ordered the FAs to remain seated and told us not to expect any service (the flight was about 90 minutes long for the 554 miles). We experienced a few bumps for the first 30 minutes or so, but nothing major. After 30 minutes there were no bumps and one could look out the window and see the ground from 35,000 feet. Finally, the FAs got up and passed out warm bottles of Delta branded water and one pass of the snack basket. On the second leg, there was a rushed PDB service, but no drink service for me until 60 minutes into the flight, and the FA's body language indicated that she really didn't want to serve me anything.

This was about as poor a trip as I've had on the Big D in the 38 years it has been my primary airline.

By contrast, my flight AMS-ATL on 10/18 experienced significant turbulence for the first two hours, and then a fair amount of bumps for most of the rest of the trip (9 hours 13 minutes), but the FA service and body language was excellent (even though the food was not good).

Unless I go on an unexpected trip in the next few weeks, my next flight involves Republic CLE-BOS and VS onward to LHR.
ND76 is online now  
Old Oct 22, 2022, 2:27 am
  #48  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SFO/SJC/OAK/STS
Programs: Alaska MVPG, Delta PM, AA EXP, Wannabe SkyWest 1K
Posts: 643
This has nothing to do with turbulence or safety, but rather the labor situation at DL. Similar thing happening at WN, where there is a labor dispute, so the pretzel and water service is often cancelled due to nonexistent turbulence. Meanwhile, I've been on moderately rough OO flights and they've made it through the F cabin 2 times on a 90 minute flight and done the snack basket...with smiles on their faces.

This problem won't be fixed on DL until the issue of FA unionization is resolved. Ultimately, I don't blame DL here, but Sara Nelson and her constant attempts to bring Soviet bread line customer service to the airline industry.

https://simpleflying.com/delta-air-l...tendant-union/
Spiff likes this.
PotomacApproach is offline  
Old Oct 22, 2022, 7:58 am
  #49  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: DL DM+(segs)/MM, UA Ag, Hilton DM, Marriott Ti (life Pt), TSA Opt-out Platinum
Posts: 3,203
Originally Posted by PotomacApproach
This has nothing to do with turbulence or safety, but rather the labor situation at DL. Similar thing happening at WN, where there is a labor dispute, so the pretzel and water service is often cancelled due to nonexistent turbulence. Meanwhile, I've been on moderately rough OO flights and they've made it through the F cabin 2 times on a 90 minute flight and done the snack basket...with smiles on their faces.

This problem won't be fixed on DL until the issue of FA unionization is resolved. Ultimately, I don't blame DL here, but Sara Nelson and her constant attempts to bring Soviet bread line customer service to the airline industry.

https://simpleflying.com/delta-air-l...tendant-union/
The issue of FA unionization has been resolved. Theyve repeatedly, and by no small margin, voted against. The union will continue to try to grow its business, but With the smaller and smaller numbers of pmNW crew, chances of this changing at DL are pretty much non-existent now.

The reality is, service levels (or lack thereof) at other union (US3) carriers is comparable.
HDQDD is offline  
Old Oct 22, 2022, 8:24 am
  #50  
 
Join Date: Dec 2009
Location: RDU
Programs: DL DM+(segs)/MM, UA Ag, Hilton DM, Marriott Ti (life Pt), TSA Opt-out Platinum
Posts: 3,203
Originally Posted by Lav Inspector
I believe much of this is driven my management and liability reasons. There has been a rather drastic increase of turbulence related injuries over the years and
Having worked for many years in flight control (dispatch), I have to ask where youre getting these stats from? Id say the TI (turbulence index) predicting tools today are better than theyve ever been. I dont doubt as the number of flights has increased, the number or incidents goes up, but on a per unit basis (I.e. per flight hour) Id be surprised to see a drastic increase over time.

Back in the good ole days when we could listen to ATC on Ch 9 on UA: you could hear your pilots complaining to ATC about how bad their ride is, and asking for other altswhen there was barely any chop. I commend them for trying to find the best ride possible for their pax, but I def heard many exaggerated reports.
strickerj likes this.
HDQDD is offline  
Old Oct 22, 2022, 10:09 am
  #51  
 
Join Date: Feb 2019
Posts: 3,095
there's a certain irony in people who seem to think even that even being expected to raise their arm enough to push the call button is asking too much accusing other people of laziness at the drop of a hat.
WillBarrett_68 is offline  
Old Oct 22, 2022, 10:33 am
  #52  
 
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: SFO/SJC/OAK/STS
Programs: Alaska MVPG, Delta PM, AA EXP, Wannabe SkyWest 1K
Posts: 643
Originally Posted by HDQDD
Back in the good ole days when we could listen to ATC on Ch 9 on UA: you could hear your pilots complaining to ATC about how bad their ride is, and asking for other alts…when there was barely any chop. I commend them for trying to find the best ride possible for their pax, but I def heard many “exaggerated” reports.
I still listen to liveatc.net a lot, both on the ground and in the air, and keep the flightradar24 app open my phone. On one WN PHX-OAK flight they did the usual "no service due to turbulence" thing. Weather was clear the whole way, jet stream winds were light without any twists or turns, and the PIREPs on aviationweather.gov were all green or blue. We hit about a minute of light chop around 10,000 ft climbing out of PHX due to thermals, and the rest of the climb was smooth. When we crossed into the Gila Bend ATC sector, the last covered by Albuquerque Center before you get switched to LA Center, every single report was "smooth". We then switched over to LA Center near the California border, and our own pilot reported "smooth". We did not hit a bump the entire cruise and they ended up doing a quick "water only" pass just before descent. The sign was turned off maybe 10 minutes after we reached cruise altitude, but the FAs still sat there. Of course, this was shortly after the FAs had been picketing in OAK.

My issue with this isn't the lack of service per se, I'll get a snack and a water at the airport to bring on the plane and on DL i can get a couple drinks in at the SC. The problem is the lying and I lose trust in people whose jobs are supposed to be about safety. It makes them look silly and petty. While FAs can demand we "follow their instructions", they can't demand we have any respect for the way they do their jobs. The situation at DL is not resolved, and one of Sara Nelson's top priorities now is to force a vote. She's got many DL FAs listening and I would expect this childish "no service due to turbulence" move to continue.
chica, KansasMike and hi55us like this.

Last edited by PotomacApproach; Oct 22, 2022 at 10:39 am
PotomacApproach is offline  
Old Oct 22, 2022, 9:22 pm
  #53  
 
Join Date: Sep 2015
Posts: 817
Originally Posted by thatmikereed
Similar - since turbulence is seemingly 100% predictable, why not fly around/over/under it instead?
Its far from 100% predictable. Delta has the best tools available and I dont think they are even at 50%. Turbulence is very dynamic and can change in minutes. At best all you can do is make a good guess.
Jeff767 is offline  
Old Oct 22, 2022, 10:47 pm
  #54  
 
Join Date: May 2006
Location: Wichita
Posts: 626
Originally Posted by sydneyracquelle
ATL>MSY yesterday full service. MSY>ATL quick water service not due to turbulence but due to short 64 minute flight.
In the "good old days," TWA used to offer an entire meal service (not snack, meal) in coach on a 707 from ICT - STL. That was about a 64 minute flight. That is plenty of time to do a drink service.

I realize that meals, etc., are a thing of the past but I, too, have had the turbulence excuse on a completely smooth flight. It is lazy FA's.
Spiff and PotomacApproach like this.
KansasMike is offline  
Old Oct 22, 2022, 11:14 pm
  #55  
 
Join Date: Oct 2019
Posts: 12
Originally Posted by HDQDD
Having worked for many years in flight control (dispatch), I have to ask where youre getting these stats from? Id say the TI (turbulence index) predicting tools today are better than theyve ever been. I dont doubt as the number of flights has increased, the number or incidents goes up, but on a per unit basis (I.e. per flight hour) Id be surprised to see a drastic increase over time.

Back in the good ole days when we could listen to ATC on Ch 9 on UA: you could hear your pilots complaining to ATC about how bad their ride is, and asking for other altswhen there was barely any chop. I commend them for trying to find the best ride possible for their pax, but I def heard many exaggerated reports.
Management types. Now, whether there is a significant increase in a per flight hour basis, I have no idea nor did they specify. Quite frankly I think the overall number is all they care about presenting.
Lav Inspector is offline  
Old Oct 23, 2022, 12:23 pm
  #56  
 
Join Date: Dec 2007
Programs: DL, Hilton, National
Posts: 826
I can see why getting the carts out might not be worth it when they are predicting a lot of turbulence. But last night on a ATL-ORF flight, there was very minimal rough air until the end of the flight, and the FAs stayed seated (or standing in the galley talking) and didn't even serve in F. There was no reason they couldn't have done a quick service in plastic cups, but took the chance to just avoid it altogether. That's frustrating, we had a minimum of half an hour with not a single bump.
paterwdb is offline  
Old Oct 23, 2022, 12:54 pm
  #57  
A FlyerTalk Posting Legend
 
Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,223
I've never understood the obsession with collecting empty plastic (etc.) cups at the end of a flight, although I suspect it's covered by some broad FAA mandate to collect all service items before takeoff or landing. If drinks are served in plastic during turbulence and FAs suddenly need to be seated, it should be a big deal.
MSPeconomist is offline  
Old Oct 23, 2022, 1:25 pm
  #58  
 
Join Date: Feb 2003
Location: Southern California
Programs: United MileagePlus Premier 1K, Delta SkyMiles Diamond Medallion
Posts: 1,140
This is when the geographical (dis)advantage of ATL comes into play, its so close to so many places and flight times are relatively short . That , coupled with lazy and indifferent ATL fas, and youve got the root of this thread .
SSF556 and hi55us like this.
unitedbusiness is offline  
Old Oct 23, 2022, 6:08 pm
  #59  
 
Join Date: Jun 2004
Location: KUSA
Programs: Whatever AMEX Plat comes with... I buy on price.. Spirit Big Front Seat, want First/buy First
Posts: 1,426
Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
I've never understood the obsession with collecting empty plastic (etc.) cups at the end of a flight, although I suspect it's covered by some broad FAA mandate to collect all service items before takeoff or landing. If drinks are served in plastic during turbulence and FAs suddenly need to be seated, it should be a big deal.
Don't you know it! And you make a fair point regarding it seems to be a little picky and choosy about similar conditions. 14 CFR 121.5xx is kind of an odds and ends Subpart. The below is in there... as is the FAA requirement that all carry-on bags have to be the right size and each pax monitored for 1 + 1 with bags. Exit briefing is in there, access to flight deck allowances, oh, and the one that states airliners probably should have like a door that locks on the cockpit or something.

121.577 Stowage of food, beverage, and passenger service equipment during airplane movement on the surface, takeoff, and landing.(a) No certificate holder may move an airplane on the surface, take off, or land when any food, beverage, or tableware furnished by the certificate holder is located at any passenger seat.

(b) No certificate holder may move an airplane on the surface, take off, or land unless each food and beverage tray and seat back tray table is secured in its stowed position.

(c) No certificate holder may permit an airplane to move on the surface, take off, or land unless each passenger serving cart is secured in its stowed position.

(d) No certificate holder may permit an airplane to move on the surface, take off, or land unless each movie screen that extends into an aisle is stowed.

(e) Each passenger shall comply with instructions given by a crewmember with regard to compliance with this section.
JAXPax is offline  
Old Oct 24, 2022, 9:40 pm
  #60  
Formerly known as scootr29
 
Join Date: Apr 2010
Posts: 971
On a flight from ATL to DCA. Because of Turbulence service to the main cabin has been stopped, but 1st class service continues.

also pilot just turned off seatbelt.

SSF556 is offline  

Thread Tools
Search this Thread

Contact Us - Manage Preferences - Archive - Advertising - Cookie Policy - Privacy Statement - Terms of Service -

This site is owned, operated, and maintained by MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. Copyright © 2024 MH Sub I, LLC dba Internet Brands. All rights reserved. Designated trademarks are the property of their respective owners.