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Delta Air Lines Pilot Strike Discussion Thread

Delta Air Lines Pilot Strike Discussion Thread

Old Sep 30, 22, 3:40 pm
  #1  
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Delta Air Lines Pilot Strike Discussion Thread

Ballots opened today.

https://www.reuters.com/business/aer...er-2022-09-30/
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Old Sep 30, 22, 4:19 pm
  #2  
 
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Didn't realize things had deteriorated to this point. Any idea what the sticking points are?
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Old Sep 30, 22, 7:18 pm
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There’s a pilot shortage industry-wide so a good time to advocate for concessions. Market economics at work; let’s hope both sides get and give something to reach a fair deal. S
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Old Sep 30, 22, 10:36 pm
  #4  
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Union letter to members:

September 30, 2022

Fellow Pilots,

Today, we take a crucial step in our efforts to secure a comprehensive, industry-leading contract: the opening of a strike authorization ballot. You will receive a strike authorization ballot via email that includes detailed instructions of the voting process. The ballot is now open and closes on Monday, Oct. 31, at 2:00 p.m. ET. You can also vote by going to www.alpa.org/votenet.Why now?

At the August MEC meeting, your elected union representatives unanimously approved a resolution calling for a strike authorization ballot at the appropriate time as determined by the Negotiating Committee, the MEC and the MEC Chairman. That time is now.

On Wednesday, management presented your Negotiating Committee with the Company’s proposal for Section 3 – Compensation. Rather than recognizing our significant efforts as frontline leaders, management chose to squander an opportunity to reach a timely agreement by providing a woefully inadequate proposal. This proposal does not even come close to alleviating the impact of inflation on pilot purchasing power over the thousand-plus days since the amendable date nor does it recognize the extraordinary efforts of the Delta pilots over the last several years. Through statistically valid polling, surveys and your direct contact with the elected union reps, we know what management put on the table falls substantially short of your expectations and what we have earned.

Undoubtedly, there is interest in the specific details of management’s proposal. While the parties are able to discuss proposals in general terms, the National Mediation Board (NMB) has instituted a protocol preventing both sides from discussing details related to pay or disseminating the terms of compensation proposals made by either side until there is a tentative agreement. This is a common NMB practice during the end-game of most mediated negotiations.

Your historic displays of solidarity on the picket line this spring and summer demonstrated our resolve to bring these negotiations to a successful conclusion. Now, we must take the next step available to us under the Railway Labor Act and continue to show that resolve through overwhelming support for the strike authorization ballot. I ask that you join me in sending a resounding message to management that we are nearly 15,000 pilots strong, will not stand for meager economic proposals and are willing to go the distance to achieve our contractual goals. Your Negotiating Committee would not ask for a vote in favor unless this additional leverage was needed to get our negotiations over the finish line.

We have said this on many occasions, but it bears repeating: we have witnessed management invest billions of dollars in stock buy-backs, foreign carriers, wholly-owned subsidiaries and pay raises to other employees – all while we work under pay rates, working conditions and benefits negotiated in 2016. With the compensation proposal management just slid across the table, there is no indication that Delta values its pilots as the best in the industry, or recognition that Delta is significantly more profitable than its competitors.

It’s time to say “I’m in favor” of providing my Negotiating Committee with leverage to show management we are ready to conclude these negotiations with a contract that truly reflects our rightful place in the industry.

Please continue to stay engaged and look for more information during the 30-day ballot window. I’m confident in our solidarity and that our collective resolve will achieve long overdue contractual gains

In unity,

Captain Jason Ambrosi
Chairman, Delta Master Executive Council

https://dal.alpa.org/Library/Publica...2022-9-30-2022
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Old Sep 30, 22, 11:21 pm
  #5  
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The best thing might be to call their bluff and just liquidate the airline and start over. Nothing but extortion at this point when you had some A350 captains making close to seven figures as reported on the DL pilots forum on Airline Pilot Central. These folks aren't even close to struggling like many Americans (unless they are living way beyond their means) so I don't see how they think they'll gain much sympathy from a strike. And they obviously don't care about the Delta employees who makes far less than them who they'll be putting out of a job. Just my opinion though.
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Old Sep 30, 22, 11:32 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
The best thing might be to call their bluff and just liquidate the airline and start over. Nothing but extortion at this point when you had some A350 captains making close to seven figures as reported on the DL pilots forum on Airline Pilot Central. These folks aren't even close to struggling like many Americans (unless they are living way beyond their means) so I don't see how they think they'll gain much sympathy from a strike. And they obviously don't care about the Delta employees who makes far less than them who they'll be putting out of a job. Just my opinion though.
Lol call their bluff by liquidating the airline? That's about as good of a strategy as:

Pilots "we raise"
Delta "we call"
Pilots "what do you got?"
Delta "10 high, we knew you were bluffing"
Pilots "well yeah, we were bluffing but we still have a pair of 4s..."
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Old Oct 1, 22, 1:04 am
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
The best thing might be to call their bluff and just liquidate the airline and start over. Nothing but extortion at this point when you had some A350 captains making close to seven figures as reported on the DL pilots forum on Airline Pilot Central. These folks aren't even close to struggling like many Americans (unless they are living way beyond their means) so I don't see how they think they'll gain much sympathy from a strike. And they obviously don't care about the Delta employees who makes far less than them who they'll be putting out of a job. Just my opinion though.
350 guys earning that much is an outlier and requires busting ... .... My understanding assuming payback days work similar to my shop you basically come in on an off day when they are short and get a payback day. Stockpile those and you can drop trips with pay. Normally this is good for the company pilots come in when they are shortstaffed with the promise of a day off with pay. However there is nothing stopping you from also working on a payback day. So you get scenarios where the company mismanaged staffing now they are really short and offer up to a double normal rate to pick stuff up. So now you have guys getting 300% or more. So that 18 block hour trip to Europe and back is now worth 54hrs. Repeat throughout the year and your salary is now 2.5 times normal.

Payback days are to punish the company for involuntary extending you, If the company is forcing you into working an off day then the penalty is now a future day off with pay. Usually even at my old regional this was something that happened maybe once every three months. However throw in a clusterf*ck of a staffing situation like the a350 onboarding and you get weird scenarios where a few guys make bank for a year until things get situated.
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Old Oct 1, 22, 1:07 am
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
The best thing might be to call their bluff and just liquidate the airline and start over.
You cant without wiping out the stockholders, which would also wipe out the majority of executive compensation.

Also, why do you think the pilots are worried about sympathy??? Theyre just negotiating, and a strike authorization allows them to use all tools at their disposal to negotiate the most favorable contract possible. For better or worse, brinksmanship negotiations are part and parcel of union negotiations because of game theory.

A company will never give its best offer early because they still risk a membership no vote on the contract and a strike vote. The company also needs to look tough on the labor to satisfy shareholders, who are legally managements boss. The union leaders pretty much cant take an early good contract because membership will vote them out for being soft on the company. And members want to feel like the got the absolute best possible offer and will hold everyone accountable for what they feel should have been the result. All the parties are pretty much locked into this pattern due to their underlying roles and constraints.
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Last edited by emma dog; Oct 1, 22 at 1:19 am
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Old Oct 1, 22, 7:19 am
  #9  
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Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
You cant without wiping out the stockholders, which would also wipe out the majority of executive compensation.

Also, why do you think the pilots are worried about sympathy??? Theyre just negotiating, and a strike authorization allows them to use all tools at their disposal to negotiate the most favorable contract possible. For better or worse, brinksmanship negotiations are part and parcel of union negotiations because of game theory.

A company will never give its best offer early because they still risk a membership no vote on the contract and a strike vote. The company also needs to look tough on the labor to satisfy shareholders, who are legally managements boss. The union leaders pretty much cant take an early good contract because membership will vote them out for being soft on the company. And members want to feel like the got the absolute best possible offer and will hold everyone accountable for what they feel should have been the result. All the parties are pretty much locked into this pattern due to their underlying roles and constraints.
Airlines which have reached new deals with pilots in the last few months:
Alaska
Horizon
SkyWest (non-union)
Piedmont
Envoy
Mesa
CommutAir
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Old Oct 1, 22, 7:28 am
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Originally Posted by DLASflyer View Post
Airlines which have reached new deals with pilots in the last few months:
Alaska
Horizon
SkyWest (non-union)
Piedmont
Envoy
Mesa
CommutAir
FWIW, AS pilots authorized a strike on May 25.
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Old Oct 1, 22, 8:44 am
  #11  
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If the DL pilots strike vote is yes, when could a strike start?
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Old Oct 1, 22, 8:49 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
If the DL pilots strike vote is yes, when could a strike start?
Not for awhile. Vote lasts all of October then there is a 30 day cooling off period. That puts us in...December
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Old Oct 1, 22, 8:51 am
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Originally Posted by DLASflyer View Post
Not for awhile. Vote lasts all of October then there is a 30 day cooling off period. That puts us in...December
Just like with AS, very unlikely any strike will happen; just postering for the negotiations. Well undoubtedly see a yes vote on the strike authorization followed thereafter by a tentative agreeement.
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Old Oct 1, 22, 8:55 am
  #14  
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Originally Posted by DLASflyer View Post
Not for awhile. Vote lasts all of October then there is a 30 day cooling off period. That puts us in...December
AHHHHHH, the holiday travel season. That's what I suspected.
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Old Oct 1, 22, 10:19 am
  #15  
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I don't begin to know the particulars of pilot demands, but I think one thing they would like to see is more flights using Delta metal and less reliance on foreign partner codeshares and/or domestic regional carriers. And I am 100% in favor of this concept. It its painful to look at how limited the Asian route system is on Delta metal and painful to be flying around way too much on full elite-heavy regional jets.
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