flyerCO

https://www.cnbc.com/2022/09/14/unit...i-flights.html

UA/EK partnership.
AA already partners with QR.

What does it mean for DL and Ed's hatred towards ME3?

I'm waiting for the announcement of how DL/ST has had a long valuable partnership with....Saudia . (Or similar PR BS)

Any thoughts on response.

sxc7885

I’ve been wondering this for a while but on a much grander scale than just the ME. I frankly see Deltas International route network so much weaker with the advancements by UA and AA over the last several months. After todays United announcement to Dubai the launch of its Amman flight and the announcements by AA for their flights to New Zealand and Doha I feel like Delta has just given up or even started retreating in the case of leaving Azores(United picked up service here) and pulling out of Hong Kong and Manila/Singapore(UA resumed its UA1 route). Ive seen both AA and United plant roots all across India and Delta seems to just have given up with no words on if its restarting or canceling its Mumbai route which I was super excited to fly pre-covid. United’s expansion into Africa has been a game changer for me personally as someone who frequents CPT to do it non-stop in Polaris is so much better than a layover in Europe. Was excited to see Delta launch their route but 10K for D1 and 6K for Polaris both out of EWR is hard to justify the huge price difference even for the most avid Delta lover

Even recent announcements are dismal another flight to Tel Aviv isn’t really a new destination and CT and Tahiti are both served by another us carrier along with the announced CT route being a triangle isn’t that exciting.

flyerCO

I think DL biggest expansion issue right now, aircraft. I think they'd love to expand, but without the 777s, they're locked in. I believe it was right choice at time based on what was known. It's only with benefit of 20/20 hindsight that it was wrong. Regardless, it has limited growth till they get more aircraft.

unitedbusiness

it seems like a lifetime ago that Delta announced a really exciting, original long haul international route !

krazykanuck

I also wonder - is DL content to let AF/KL/VS do the heavy lifting and last mile from a revenue standpoint in Africa, ME? Like even if they had the AC available, would they deploy them in interesting ways? I don't know the answer - more of a question for discussion.

flyerCO

Africa at least DL has always had presence in multiple cities. In the ME, TLV seems to be it. They inherited NW AMS-India routes, but never seemed interested, even if just by moving them to be US-India. DXB they've always played blame game. Which to certain extent I agreed, but not to extent they've made it out. This is why I'm curious what DL response is now that there's no united front on the ME3.

krazykanuck

Yeah - same, not that I really expect anything from DL.

I mean it's interesting - AA seems to have been of the "if you can't beat em, join em" cozying up to EY eons ago and having QR being a full member of OneWorld. I find the EK/UA tie up interesting. But honestly I'm not sure what DL can or would do in the area. I mean there are no respectable dates left at the dance, I can't imagine EY joining SkyTeam, but not sure they want to join OW either since those 3 are like betta fish can't be in the same tank. And I mean it's not like RUH is going to be the next hub and Saudia will make the ME4. lol. At least not any time in the foreseeable future or business plan.

jiburi

Technically, Etihad could be a viable partner with no US based carrier currently partnered. Seeing Skyteams airlines; KLM, Airfrance, Korean, among others already partnered, it would make sense for Delta’s entry into partnership. The only problem is, do they want Delta knowing they also have variety of Star Alliance members as partners…

Jiburi

Fly2Connect

This is arguably my biggest problem with Delta. Their international network lacks footprint and while SkyTeam is nice it can't compete with the likes of Star. More and more often it seems that United and *A are the only way I can get to the destinations I'm interested in.

Mwenenzi

AA & EY have been ff partners for some years. And before Qatar QR joined oneworld
https://www.aa.com/i18n/travel-info/...ad-airways.jsp

https://www.wheretocredit.com/etihad
--
The ME3 (EK EY QR) are in the fortunate geographic position that 4-6-8-10 hrs flying time encompass a large % of the worlds population.

MSPeconomist

I'm still missing VA as a close DL partner. I keep wishing that DL hadn't destroyed the old PMNW hub in Tokyo, although it would have needed to be relocated from NRT to HND at some point to continue to capture the lucrative USA-TYO nonstop O-D traffic.

sxc7885

I couldn’t agree more. Ive been DM with Delta for the last 5 years and have been really shocked looking back at the flying Ive done this year and what’s left for me and none of it is on Delta because of the destinations or in some case wildly overpriced difference. Some AF/KLM but majority has been on Star carriers. The worst part was they had such a fantastic route network (IDK if this was because of the NW merger) but seeing that they use to fly to Jordan, Helsinki, Istanbul, Cairo, Budapest made me wish for the old days. I was shocked to see the destinations they used to fly to(also just saw they stopped flying to Geneva IDK when that happened).

physicsdude

Agreed. Star Alliance has been offering fares that are much cheaper than Skyteam, usually on the order between hundred and thousands of dollars in business and first. Usually, joint ventures want to compete with other joint ventures, but a lot of the Skyteam joint venutres (the Atlantic one with KL, AF, DL, and VS and the Pacific one between KE and DL) are using as a means to raise prices and keep prices at a certain level and not compete with Star Alliance or OneWorld.

To be fair, I can see why the trans-Pacific joint venture with KE and DL are expensive, which is due to Korean Air having been hit hard by the pandemic and now that demand is back for travel to the Pacific, they're jacking up prices to regain missed revenue from the pandemic. They didn't have bailout handed by the South Korean government unlike other airlines and were solely relying on cargo operations to recoup costs in addition to gutting rewards and removing all lifetime members, Morning Calm Premium and Million Milers. For flights across the Atlantic, though, I can't really see the logic behind it other than them banking on the fact the people will pay a premium for slightly better service than on Star Alliance or OneWorld carriers. Just my two cents, though.

Fly2Connect

Honestly IST and HEL alone might be enough to get my back on DL at least semi regularly... Its a shame no US airlines fly to IST. TK is nice, but likes to charge quite a premium in Y (although the product is much nicer).

ofj

Yes! My thoughts also. It is very odd that none of the US carriers fly to IST (one of the most important transit airports in the world).