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Delta Pilots Write Open Letter to Customers re RecordTravel Demand

Delta Pilots Write Open Letter to Customers re RecordTravel Demand

Old Jun 20, 22, 6:45 am
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
Much like an aircraft accident, rarely does a single factor lead to catastrophe. Tumultuous labor relations at Eastern preceded Lorenzo. Do a search and you'll find that few airlines wanted to hire Eastern pilots after the airline shutdown. Why do you suppose that was?
Because there was a recession in January 1991 that was associated with the First Gulf War and super high fuel prices. The airline industry shrank.
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Old Jun 20, 22, 7:08 am
  #47  
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Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
EA went down due to the CEO, Frank Lorenzo, who was later banned from working in the airline industry because of his repeated pattern of running airlines into bankruptcy.
Who banned him? If he wasn't convicted of a crime, what government agency would have the authority to do this? The SEC wouldn't have jurisdiction over any privately held companies (hence not the whole airline industry, at least in principle). Did the CAB do it when it existed and was responsible for regulating airlines? The FAA seems to focus more on safety, so they could revoke his pilot's license for cause, etc., or prevent him (again, with cause) from being responsible for an airline's operational and safety decisions. It seems rather silly that he was banned from (to give a silly example) taking a part time job as a baggage handler or phone agent.
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Old Jun 20, 22, 7:16 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Who banned him? If he wasn't convicted of a crime, what government agency would have the authority to do this? The SEC wouldn't have jurisdiction over any privately held companies (hence not the whole airline industry, at least in principle). Did the CAB do it when it existed and was responsible for regulating airlines? The FAA seems to focus more on safety, so they could revoke his pilot's license for cause, etc., or prevent him (again, with cause) from being responsible for an airline's operational and safety decisions. It seems rather silly that he was banned from (to give a silly example) taking a part time job as a baggage handler or phone agent.
The FAA banned him from c suite leadership. https://avgeekery.com/frank-lorenzo-...irline-grinch/

Last edited by emma dog; Jun 20, 22 at 7:24 am
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Old Jun 20, 22, 7:45 am
  #49  
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That article says that the DOT did it, not the FAA, although it's vague about the response when the Scandinavian carrier wanted him banned from the airline industry (worldwide?) as a condition of purchasing Continental. This would seem an improper request, although they could require that he be totally gone from Continental by a certain date if the purchase is approved.
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Old Jun 20, 22, 8:00 am
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Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
The FAA banned him from c suite leadership. https://avgeekery.com/frank-lorenzo-...irline-grinch/
He was not banned for life or anything like that. The FAA denied his application to start up Friendship Airlines, citing his management abilities or lack thereof. Hardly a surprise in the days of the Clinton administration.

The article you cite is not very neutral to put it mildly, the Washington Post had a bit more factual report on the events:

https://www.washingtonpost.com/archi...-3a967d228ecb/
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Old Jun 20, 22, 8:14 am
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
That article says that the DOT did it, not the FAA, although it's vague about the response when the Scandinavian carrier wanted him banned from the airline industry (worldwide?) as a condition of purchasing Continental. This would seem an improper request, although they could require that he be totally gone from Continental by a certain date if the purchase is approved.
Yeah, I don't know anything about the story, but all it indicates is that the Scandinavian carrier "wanted" him banned, and that a future attempt to start an airline was blocked. That's far from being banned from working in the aviation industry. It doesn't even indicate he was banned from running an airline.
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Old Jun 20, 22, 9:11 am
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Originally Posted by jetsfan92588 View Post
Yeah, I don't know anything about the story, but all it indicates is that the Scandinavian carrier "wanted" him banned, and that a future attempt to start an airline was blocked. That's far from being banned from working in the aviation industry. It doesn't even indicate he was banned from running an airline.
He was effectively banned when the DOT ruled him unfit to run an airline.

There was a confluence of enemies that made this happen. The Scandinavian airline put in one request. The various labor unions also did. He was also undermined by various pro-labor constituencies that were upset by the various union-busting activities he had engaged in for more than a decade. Depending on your point of view, he was a menace to safety and needed to go OR he was a victim of the labor unions having the last word.

Last edited by emma dog; Jun 20, 22 at 9:13 am Reason: add 2nd paragraph
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Old Jun 20, 22, 9:45 am
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Lol. All I've learned from the last few posts is a lot of you have no idea what happened with Eastern.

and Readywhenyouare, wrong again. Delta, for example, has quite a few exEA people. As does United (via Continental)

Some of y'all need to read a book.
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Old Jun 20, 22, 10:28 am
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
No one is worth unlimited salaries.
I'm not sure which is more ridiculous, "if you don't think your job is 100% perfect your only legitimate option is to quit" or "anyone who wants any change is actually demanding unlimited salary" but they're both hall of famers
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Old Jun 20, 22, 2:50 pm
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Originally Posted by Dawgfan6291 View Post
Lol. All I've learned from the last few posts is a lot of you have no idea what happened with Eastern.

and Readywhenyouare, wrong again. Delta, for example, has quite a few exEA people. As does United (via Continental)

Some of y'all need to read a book.
Has? Like, still employed at Delta? I find that very hard to believe.
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Old Jun 20, 22, 3:16 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
Has? Like, still employed at Delta? I find that very hard to believe.
Yep. Quite a few in Technical Operations. Though a lot of people from that era took the early out.

I believe American has quite a few as well. They aren't some black stain on the industry like you want to believe. Again, you should really educate yourself on what actually happened at Eastern and do so without your labor hating management loving bias thing you have going on.
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Old Jun 20, 22, 4:38 pm
  #57  
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Originally Posted by Dawgfan6291 View Post
Yep. Quite a few in Technical Operations. Though a lot of people from that era took the early out.

I believe American has quite a few as well. They aren't some black stain on the industry like you want to believe. Again, you should really educate yourself on what actually happened at Eastern and do so without your labor hating management loving bias thing you have going on.
My goodness they must have been fresh out of school at Easfern if they are still working over 30 years later. And I'm almost positive Eastern had furloughs going on as well during the last years. Wouldn't be many young ones around. But I'll verify that shortly in case I've got it wrong.
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Old Jun 20, 22, 5:49 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
My goodness they must have been fresh out of school at Easfern if they are still working over 30 years later. And I'm almost positive Eastern had furloughs going on as well during the last years. Wouldn't be many young ones around. But I'll verify that shortly in case I've got it wrong.
Is......is 30 years a lot to you?

Lmao.

there are still ex Pan Am people at Delta too. Matter of fact I can think of one ex Western person that I know who is still working.

A lot of those Delta employees you hate so much lost a lot in bankruptcy and are working a lot long then you apparently think people work in this industry. (FWIW thats industry wide)
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Old Jun 20, 22, 7:28 pm
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Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
He was effectively banned when the DOT ruled him unfit to run an airline.
Perhaps, again, all I know is what the article says. And the article does not say that. The article says:

That did not stop him from trying to start up another airline in Baltimore in 1993 though. Lorenzo wanted to call it Friendship Airlines (chuckle). Given his past record and loud protests from unions however the Department of Transportation declined the bid, saying Lorenzo was not fit to fly “in accord with the public interest.”
(emphasis added)

This is different from the DOT ruling him unfit to run an airline or saying he could not run an airline. Does the DOT have any unilateral authority to deny an individual a position in management at an airline (other than through a consent decree or something similar)? I don't know anything about airline regulation, but while bank regulators can disallow someone from starting a bank, they cannot (generally) deny an individual the right to take a position at an established bank, assuming the bank is in good health and there aren't other problems with bank's license. All this to say, starting an airline may be a lot different than being able to take a position at an existing airline.
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Old Jun 21, 22, 4:58 am
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Originally Posted by Dawgfan6291 View Post
Is......is 30 years a lot to you?

Lmao.

there are still ex Pan Am people at Delta too. Matter of fact I can think of one ex Western person that I know who is still working.

A lot of those Delta employees you hate so much lost a lot in bankruptcy and are working a lot long then you apparently think people work in this industry. (FWIW thats industry wide)
Please don't put words in my mouth. I've said nothing about hating anyone. I personally knew an MCO based DL flight attendant who began working for National and to DL by way of the Pan Am acquisition.

Oh, and just to be sure, I asked a group of retired airline employees about Eastern on Facebook...

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