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Delta Pilots Write Open Letter to Customers re RecordTravel Demand

Delta Pilots Write Open Letter to Customers re RecordTravel Demand

Old Jun 18, 22, 11:34 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
this microeconomics vs macroeconomics debate is often pretty polarized (and Iím just gonna leave it there, without veering into OMNI territory)
  • millions of consumers see their daily lives in terms of microeconomics
  • national and international policy operate in the domain of macroeconomics
the two spheres are INTERDEPENDENT, not mutually exclusive ó one-size-fits-all approaches will necessarily disappoint those who believe they donít adequately address specific interests, but the inability (or, probably more accurately, unwillingness) to have rational discussions with those who hold different perspectives has pretty well doomed workable compromises
All I'm saying is that it's a numbers game, and very predictable.

I can't predict the outcome of one coin toss. But I can predict with some accuracy 100 or 1000 coin tosses. An individual is rational to that individual. A group of individuals is rational to an economist.
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Old Jun 18, 22, 11:39 am
  #32  
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Old Jun 18, 22, 4:29 pm
  #33  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
Delta's finest employees were at CVG. I never had a moment of grief connecting there or getting help from an agent.
Good for you. But hardly a universal experience
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Old Jun 18, 22, 10:09 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
How many executives, attorneys, psychiatrists, etc do you know that stomp around and throw a fit when they don't get their way?
uh. You serious Clark? Literally all the time.

I'm guessing because of your bias against labor (while oddly enough praising CVG based employees which is a little odd) you don't see it but it happens all the time. In some cases the FF base doesn't see it because executives will keep it internal (airline executives LOVE playing one employee group off of the other, for example) but I have seen executives throw plenty of fits.

Just an example. Okay the pilots suck yada yada. Let me ask you this. Between Delta and DALPA who has OPENLY violated the contract between the two parties multiple times to the point of having to pay out millions of dollars to the other party and for the most part has told the other party "ha suck it, don't care. Going to keep on doing it and you can keep dragging us to the arbitrator to get cents on the dollar"

I am excited to see that you either don't know or the mental gymnastics that will come with your answer.
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Old Jun 18, 22, 11:24 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by Dawgfan6291 View Post
uh. You serious Clark? Literally all the time.

I'm guessing because of your bias against labor (while oddly enough praising CVG based employees which is a little odd) you don't see it but it happens all the time. In some cases the FF base doesn't see it because executives will keep it internal (airline executives LOVE playing one employee group off of the other, for example) but I have seen executives throw plenty of fits.

Just an example. Okay the pilots suck yada yada. Let me ask you this. Between Delta and DALPA who has OPENLY violated the contract between the two parties multiple times to the point of having to pay out millions of dollars to the other party and for the most part has told the other party "ha suck it, don't care. Going to keep on doing it and you can keep dragging us to the arbitrator to get cents on the dollar"

I am excited to see that you either don't know or the mental gymnastics that will come with your answer.
I have never seen executives picketing outside or having a coronary over someone else performing the job they walked off of. They have no right to hold productivity hostage.

Contracts get violated all the time. That's what the courts are for. And if you think I'm on the side of either party, think again. Delta hasn't had good management since Grinstein and Whitehurst.

If you're unhappy at your job then leave. That will send the loudest message. But if someone else is willing to do it for the same or less pay and do it with a smile, then you're not worth as much as you think you are. These people need to grow up.

And look at that, I managed to respond to you without making personal remarks like you do.
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Old Jun 18, 22, 11:44 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
How many executives, attorneys, psychiatrists, etc do you know that stomp around and throw a fit when they don't get their way?
I know a lot more than people who donít know many executives and attorneys would think it would be.

Note that I donít know any psychiatrists who stomp around and throw a fit, but psychiatrists often have their own issues.
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Old Jun 19, 22, 12:29 am
  #37  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
I have never seen executives picketing outside or having a coronary over someone else performing the job they walked off of. They have no right to hold productivity hostage.

Contracts get violated all the time. That's what the courts are for. And if you think I'm on the side of either party, think again. Delta hasn't had good management since Grinstein and Whitehurst.

If you're unhappy at your job then leave. That will send the loudest message. But if someone else is willing to do it for the same or less pay and do it with a smile, then you're not worth as much as you think you are. These people need to grow up.


And look at that, I managed to respond to you without making personal remarks like you do.
Whew. I actually got nothing. I guess this one is like the "airbuses will lawn dart because they have FBW" stuff. You do you.


I just want to take a minute and say to all the Delta employees out there. Thank you for what you do. Unlike some people who literally have no idea how the industry works, a lot of us really appreciate what you do and are thankful for those that go above and beyond everyday. People like the above really have no idea how much you do but please don't assume all FFs have the same attitude. To the pilots that are working overtime who DON'T have to do so, but are doing so to try to help out the already cluster of an operation, thank you. Same to all the Flight attendants, ACS staff, TechOps staff and everyone else. Management has put you in a bad situation and some of us don't blame you for that. I, for one, hope that management makes the needed adjustments to turn Delta back into what it was 3 years ago. For all the employees who are still around that gave so much during bankruptcy, thank you as well. Not all of us have such a ignorant view of what you do and how hard you work to make a true difference.
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Old Jun 19, 22, 12:58 am
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Air Houston View Post
I know a lot more than people who don’t know many executives and attorneys would think it would be.

Note that I don’t know any psychiatrists who stomp around and throw a fit, but psychiatrists often have their own issues.
I suppose my position is public vs behind closed doors. Professionals can be upset with working conditions but still maintain a professional appearance and behavior when dealing with clients and the public.

As adults we make choices. Rarely will we do something unpleasant without significant upside on our end. The same applies to these pilots and overtime. I do not believe for a moment that their motive for showing up is an altruistic act.
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Old Jun 19, 22, 1:32 pm
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
I have never seen executives picketing outside or having a coronary over someone else performing the job they walked off of. They have no right to hold productivity hostage.
Executives don't protest their own actions? You don't say.

I hope, for everyone's sake, you aren't a labor attorney.
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Old Jun 19, 22, 1:49 pm
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
Contracts get violated all the time. That's what the courts are for. And if you think I'm on the side of either party, think again. Delta hasn't had good management since Grinstein and Whitehurst.
Winner Winner, chicken dinner! Both employees and customers loved that management team.

Some folks here miss the Richard Anderson era. I will concede that in person Richard was charming and gracious, but he started the long slide of FF benefits which Ed has merely continued.

I will cut the current management some slack, as I think they positioned the company for a slow and lengthy travel recovery, and instead have been caught by surprise by the sharp rebound of the last six months. But it's time to cut the schedule back to something that can be executed. I'm flying in three weeks from today and hope that July is better than June. That won't be hard.

David
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Old Jun 19, 22, 9:47 pm
  #41  
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
If you're unhappy at your job then leave. That will send the loudest message.
Wait what? One - or even a few - DL pilot(s) quietly quitting over a period of time will send a louder message than all (or a significant number) of them going on strike on the same day?

You'll have to show the math on that claim.

And I don't think most major airline pilots are unhappy at their jobs. They just want to make their jobs even better.
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Old Jun 19, 22, 10:01 pm
  #42  
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Originally Posted by Bear96 View Post
Wait what? One - or even a few - DL pilot(s) quietly quitting over a period of time will send a louder message than all (or a significant number) of them going on strike on the same day?

You'll have to show the math on that claim.

And I don't think most major airline pilots are unhappy at their jobs. They just want to make their jobs even better.
Delta Air Lines is in business to provide value to shareholders. Everything else is secondary. It's not a jobs program.

And yes, quitting does send the loudest message. There's a couple of particularly bad regionals that have had lots of pilots leave. They were having trouble staffing flights even before this mess.

Eastern Airlines pilots constantly wanted more money too. Look what happened there. No one is worth unlimited salaries.
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Old Jun 19, 22, 10:06 pm
  #43  
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
Delta Air Lines is in business to provide value to shareholders. Everything else is secondary. It's not a jobs program.
That's nice and all, but has nothing to do with what I said.
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Old Jun 20, 22, 4:13 am
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Eastern Airlines pilots constantly wanted more money too. Look what happened there. No one is worth unlimited salaries.
EA went down due to the CEO, Frank Lorenzo, who was later banned from working in the airline industry because of his repeated pattern of running airlines into bankruptcy.
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Old Jun 20, 22, 5:31 am
  #45  
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Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
EA went down due to the CEO, Frank Lorenzo, who was later banned from working in the airline industry because of his repeated pattern of running airlines into bankruptcy.
Much like an aircraft accident, rarely does a single factor lead to catastrophe. Tumultuous labor relations at Eastern preceded Lorenzo. Do a search and you'll find that few airlines wanted to hire Eastern pilots after the airline shutdown. Why do you suppose that was?
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