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Delta Pilots Write Open Letter to Customers re RecordTravel Demand

Delta Pilots Write Open Letter to Customers re RecordTravel Demand

Old Jun 17, 22, 7:03 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by AsiaTravel2019 View Post
I agree with the pilots' union. This is all at the feet of the airlines. They did too many buyouts and cut too far back during the pandemic (and took the welfare payments from the US government) and now the chickens have come home to roost.

Like others posting here, I believe demand will continue to cool down and the airlines will have to re-evaluate their ridiculous prices.
Hindsight is always 20/20. I don’t fault the airlines at all for making the decisions they did regarding staffing around spring 2020. Nobody knew how long the pandemic was going to last and its effects on travel patterns and demand, or when and how the recovery was going to proceed. Airline management had to preserve cash and survive for an undetermined period of time. People often say the Federal bailout meant they should have preserved 100% staffing but the fact is the bailout only covered about 70-75% of the salaries and benefits costs for each of the airlines. Combine that with the big unknown of how long the pandemic would last, it was not unreasonable for airlines to start downsizing
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Old Jun 17, 22, 8:35 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by Dawgfan6291 View Post
so you think that a company with staffing issues would be better off stretching staff across multiple locations?........wat........?
Delta's finest employees were at CVG. I never had a moment of grief connecting there or getting help from an agent.
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Old Jun 17, 22, 9:14 pm
  #18  
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
Delta's finest employees were at CVG. I never had a moment of grief connecting there or getting help from an agent.
I’m sure there are people who feel the same about DFW, but both DFW and CVG were de-hubbed for a host of reasons that made sense at the time

that being said, I fail to see *real* relevance to the current issues
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Old Jun 17, 22, 11:09 pm
  #19  
 
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Originally Posted by AsiaTravel2019 View Post
I agree with the pilots' union. This is all at the feet of the airlines. They did too many buyouts and cut too far back during the pandemic (and took the welfare payments from the US government) and now the chickens have come home to roost.

Like others posting here, I believe demand will continue to cool down and the airlines will have to re-evaluate their ridiculous prices.
A good bit of it is at the foot of governments who printed too much money, even AFTER the economy was improving. If you're an airline (or anyone else), you can't have predicted either the rampant inflation we're now experiencing or the war in Afghanistan Ukraine. Without governments lighting money on fire, the recovery would have been a lot slower, and inflation would be a lot lower. Without the war in Afghanistan, gas prices would be lower.

Airlines were trying not to go bankrupt, once the Federal aid ran out and in the face of a difficult-to-predict pandemic. So it's perhaps a bit understandable that they didn't get it 100% right.

Last edited by Goodoldflyer; Jun 18, 22 at 8:02 am
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Old Jun 18, 22, 3:44 am
  #20  
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Originally Posted by AsiaTravel2019 View Post
I agree with the pilots' union. This is all at the feet of the airlines. They did too many buyouts and cut too far back during the pandemic (and took the welfare payments from the US government) and now the chickens have come home to roost.

Like others posting here, I believe demand will continue to cool down and the airlines will have to re-evaluate their ridiculous prices.
They seem to be complaining just for the sake of complaining. No one is forcing them to work overtime. And they are paid very handsomely for the overtime as well should they choose to take it. And if they don't want to deal with all of it? Well, they can quit. In my opinion, airline pilots in general have little self awareness. They want to be considered professionals but frequently engage in low brow behavior like picketing, strikes, and petty bickering. Something usually reserved for manual laborers. Not something you see other professionals who earn ~half a million/year doing. In my opinion the last thing on the flying public's mind are the pilots. They have the least amount of interaction with passengers and have little weight on customer satisfaction.
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Old Jun 18, 22, 5:26 am
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Originally Posted by Goodoldflyer View Post
Without the war in Afghanistan, gas prices would be lower.
Assuming you mean Ukraine, I agree with you 100%.

Our current inflation rate has little to do with US government policy. Oil and grain shortages are from the war. Microchips and other items are from Chinese COVID policies and shipping bottlenecks. Rising Wages are from our low labor force participation and low unemployment rate. Healthcare inflation is the result of a longstanding national nursing shortage. Etc…
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Old Jun 18, 22, 6:40 am
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Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
Assuming you mean Ukraine, I agree with you 100%.

Our current inflation rate has little to do with US government policy. Oil and grain shortages are from the war. Microchips and other items are from Chinese COVID policies and shipping bottlenecks. Rising Wages are from our low labor force participation and low unemployment rate. Healthcare inflation is the result of a longstanding national nursing shortage. Etc…
Naming one factor in these complex problems does not negate other factors. Definitely, chip shortages were exacerbated by COVID policies in China, but they are also a direct result of more demand, also caused in part due to COVID. Since you mentioned U.S. government policies have little to do with this, I'd specifically point out that U.S. trade sanctions on Huawei also specifically increased demand. (BTW, I'm certainly not arguing that it was an incorrect decision, but it did and does have measurable impact).

I'm not saying the U.S. government did or didn't do anything wrong or should or shouldn't have done something specific, but I think it's a bit disingenuous to say that the U.S. government policies have nothing to do with these issues. BTW, not enacting rules/taking actions is also a policy.
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Old Jun 18, 22, 6:44 am
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
Delta's finest employees were at CVG. I never had a moment of grief connecting there or getting help from an agent.
Okay and?
Originally Posted by exwannabe View Post
Was in response to "buckeye fan flyer".

Do you really care, or just prepping for the 2023 championship game :-)
¯\_(ツ)_/¯

Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
They seem to be complaining just for the sake of complaining. No one is forcing them to work overtime. And they are paid very handsomely for the overtime as well should they choose to take it. And if they don't want to deal with all of it? Well, they can quit. In my opinion, airline pilots in general have little self awareness. They want to be considered professionals but frequently engage in low brow behavior like picketing, strikes, and petty bickering. Something usually reserved for manual laborers. Not something you see other professionals who earn ~half a million/year doing. In my opinion the last thing on the flying public's mind are the pilots. They have the least amount of interaction with passengers and have little weight on customer satisfaction.
You never fail to post some goofy stuff.
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Old Jun 18, 22, 8:09 am
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Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
Assuming you mean Ukraine, I agree with you 100%.

Our current inflation rate has little to do with US government policy. Oil and grain shortages are from the war. Microchips and other items are from Chinese COVID policies and shipping bottlenecks. Rising Wages are from our low labor force participation and low unemployment rate. Healthcare inflation is the result of a longstanding national nursing shortage. Etc…
Yes, I meant Ukraine.

I disagree with the bolded statement. The U.S. government printed $7 trillion in covid aid. Other governments also printed currency. Fine, they needed to do that at a certain point. However, I think one could (and I would) argue that the $2 trillion in covid aid last year was excessive, was done as the economy was already improving, and contributed directly to the inflation you now see. Inflation is caused by too much money chasing too few goods. Some economists (like Larry Summers) predicted inflation at the time.
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Old Jun 18, 22, 8:14 am
  #25  
 
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Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
Assuming you mean Ukraine, I agree with you 100%.

Our current inflation rate has little to do with US government policy. Oil and grain shortages are from the war. Microchips and other items are from Chinese COVID policies and shipping bottlenecks. Rising Wages are from our low labor force participation and low unemployment rate. Healthcare inflation is the result of a longstanding national nursing shortage. Etc…
once again......wat......?

You should check out how many dollars were printed for/during COVID and that 100% has a HUGE reason for the drastic inflation we are seeing (and before anyone gets their underwear in a twist, both parties have happily signed bills making the printing presses run in overdrive so I'm not blaming either side for it.)

after that most of what you posted literally has no bearing on inflation. A nursing shortage doesn't cause the dollar to be worth more or less.
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Old Jun 18, 22, 9:20 am
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Originally Posted by Dawgfan6291 View Post
once again......wat......?

You should check out how many dollars were printed for/during COVID and that 100% has a HUGE reason for the drastic inflation we are seeing (and before anyone gets their underwear in a twist, both parties have happily signed bills making the printing presses run in overdrive so I'm not blaming either side for it.)

after that most of what you posted literally has no bearing on inflation. A nursing shortage doesn't cause the dollar to be worth more or less.
The bolded statement has two meanings: the ability for $1 to buy a particular item off the shelf OR it could also mean the relative strength of $1 versus other currencies. This distinction is important, and please follow for a second before blasting it. The US dollar is at an almost all-time high against other major nations (USDX is one proxy). That means that the economic conditions causing prices to rise are a worldwide phenomenon and are not solely the effects of the creation of money and excessively low interest rates that lasted too long. (Yes, both things contributed to inflation.) What I am saying is there are a lot of macroeconomic issues that are causing worldwide inflation. These include the war in Ukraine which suddenly hurt the supply of grain, fertilizer, steel, oil, and gas supplies. China's COVID lockdowns have hurt international supply chains. Then you have issues with US manufacturing --just in time inventory management has been decimated... so now retailers and manufacturers need to boost inventory AND break up sole source supply contracts. There's a lot to it, and it's more than just a few US government policies.

Nursing and inflation. The nursing shortage is causing inflation within the healthcare industry. We have had a relative shortage of nurses for decades. This has been made up for in two ways: first, people have been willing to work overtime, and secondly, we have encouraged immigration from certain countries. The immigration policies for visas has been tightened, reducing that supply. COVID reduced both the immigration supply, but it also reduced the number of nurses willing to work at all. Because you have to have certain nursing ratios to take care of patients, hospitals got into bidding wars and relied on temporary workers. Some contracts for ICU nurses reached as high as $250/hr in the Atlanta market. These are jobs that typically make closer to $50-75/hr. As a result, insurance contracts are being renegotiated and direct patient charges are rising. So, yes, a nursing shortage is causing your dollar to be worth less when buying healthcare. Here's a McKinsey article that describes this: https://www.mckinsey.com/industries/...snt-far-behind.

Since this is a DL forum, let's do airlines for a minute. Delta flew 275,379 million air seat miles in 2019. They flew 194,474 in 2021. According to their 2022Q1 financials, they flew 17% fewer seat miles as compared to 2019. Southwest airlines 2021 annual report shows 16% fewer ASMs. So, supply is down across all airlines. Meanwhile, fuel costs are roughly double the average of 2014-2019. Meanwhile, labor costs are up 10%. (source: https://www.airlines.org/dataset/a4a...enger-airlines). Meanwhile, US personal savings rates reached all-time highs in 2020 and 2021 corresponding with COVID waves. That money has to go somewhere... (https://tradingeconomics.com/united-...ly%20of%202005.) So, demand is high. Prices go up... and people keep buying the tickets because either they have to fly (business travel) or because they just don't care and want to fly no matter the cost (they have money to burn).

Final thought... isn't it crazy that used cars are appreciating in value? A friend of mine owns a 6-month old Tesla. He placed an order for another one for his wife back in February with a November estimated delivery. At the current time, his 6-month old car is worth $20k more than what he paid for it, and is worth more than the care that's on order. People would rather spend their money NOW for a used car than wait a few months for a new one. There's a lot that's upside down right now... irrational human behavior is driving a lot of these price increases. The current marketplace has broken down and is not acting as an efficient market.
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Old Jun 18, 22, 9:24 am
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Originally Posted by Dawgfan6291 View Post
You never fail to post some goofy stuff.
How many executives, attorneys, psychiatrists, etc do you know that stomp around and throw a fit when they don't get their way?
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Old Jun 18, 22, 9:43 am
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Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
Final thought... isn't it crazy that used cars are appreciating in value? A friend of mine owns a 6-month old Tesla. He placed an order for another one for his wife back in February with a November estimated delivery. At the current time, his 6-month old car is worth $20k more than what he paid for it, and is worth more than the care that's on order. People would rather spend their money NOW for a used car than wait a few months for a new one. There's a lot that's upside down right now... irrational human behavior is driving a lot of these price increases. The current marketplace has broken down and is not acting as an efficient market.
What's happening is that there is a shortage of new cars, partially due to the lack of some components, including chips. Also, the new car prices are going up. The shortage of new cars caused the used car market to go up. You're not guaranteed a car six months from now, and gas prices are going up. A bird in the hand is worth two in the bush.

I can't account for individual choices, but the market as a whole is pretty rational.
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Old Jun 18, 22, 11:24 am
  #29  
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Originally Posted by Goodoldflyer View Post
… I can't account for individual choices, but the market as a whole is pretty rational.
this microeconomics vs macroeconomics debate is often pretty polarized (and I’m just gonna leave it there, without veering into OMNI territory)
  • millions of consumers see their daily lives in terms of microeconomics
  • national and international policy operate in the domain of macroeconomics
the two spheres are INTERDEPENDENT, not mutually exclusive — one-size-fits-all approaches will necessarily disappoint those who believe they don’t adequately address specific interests, but the inability (or, probably more accurately, unwillingness) to have rational discussions with those who hold different perspectives has pretty well doomed workable compromises
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Old Jun 18, 22, 11:28 am
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
How many executives, attorneys, psychiatrists, etc do you know that stomp around and throw a fit when they don't get their way?
Basically every executive I know and the majority of attorneys I know. Look up Jones Day attorneys and the Trump lawsuits. I don't think I know any psychiatrists, but that's probably an outlier in the professional groups because it's what their training is in. Other doctors and nurses engage in slow-downs on non-patient matters because they aren't allowed to strike. There is a forum of so-called "professionals" where people are constantly complaining about things like pay, benefits, etc., including attorneys making upwards of 300k/yr complaining because firms imposed limits on lunch expenses.
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Last edited by jetsfan92588; Jun 18, 22 at 11:34 am
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