ATOBTTR

“Not as strong” also doesn’t automatically translate to “not as profitable”. I don’t know the figures and whether DEN is more profitable for UA than SLC is for DL but UA competes against two other carriers with a large presence at DEN (F9 and WN) while SLC is dominated by DL.

Dawgfan6291

This is only part of it. A big part of it is market strength of the region. United has always been stronger than Delta out west. Much like Delta is much stronger than United in the Southeast. American is stronger than both of them in the Texas market. etc. etc. etc.

We even see it internationally. Hong Kong is a perfect example. United is able to fly several flights to Hong Kong, yet the market was an absolute dumpster fire for Delta and even American to a point, who has a huge partner hub at the airport.

So if you take a market like SBA, Delta is going to have a VERY hard time competing against a very established United who not only has flights to Denver but also San Fransisco, Los Angeles and IIRC Chicago. What is going to get HVCs and cooperate contracts to switch over from that to 3-4x daily tops SLC-SBA on Delta? And is the SBA market, and the losses it would take to become established, worth it for Delta to try to add SLC/LAX/SEA-SBA to be competitive? Probably most importantly is the SBA marketplace going to add meaningful revenue to the Delta network to take up prime real estate in places like LAX/SEA where gate space is limited?
Take all of that and add it to the fact that Delta is at the point right now with regionals that to add a market like SBA they will likely have to pull DCI capacity from somewhere to do so and you see why it probably isn't worth it.

Too many people are expect Delta (or United, or American) to be everything to everyone. It simply isn't possible in the world we live it. The legacies aren't in the business of chasing market share just to chase market share anymore and they have a big focus on protecting margins. Trying to go after every regional market place goes against that grain.
none of that means SLC (or any other hub) is "weak" SLC has strengths and weaknesses. Denver has strengths and weaknesses. Just because they are in the same region on the map, doesn't mean they hubs need to serve the same roll in each carriers respective network.

And frankly, as Delta continues to grow LAX and SEA, they will have to rely less on SLC as they need to flow connections (and O&D) over both of those hubs instead of just SLC (and MSP to a point)

Dawgfan6291

where exactly is the "thriving economy"?

Inflation is up. Commodities are up. Fuel is WAY up.

and most importantly cooperate travel, what the US legacies live on, is still down with a strong possibility of never coming back.

Its a pretty decent time for NK/F9/G4 to be growing but its still tough out there for UA/AA/DL/AS/B6 and WN to a point.

jamiel

Exactly--we move between DTW and Palm Springs. DL is by far the least useful of the Big 4 for us to the Inland Empire. They don't serve PSP or ONT nonstop from Detroit, and their hubs (other than SLC) are poorly located for connectivity.

We're relatively indifferent between DTW and FNT and PSP or ONT and have used DL only about 10% of the time in the last 12 years we've traveled between those cities. DL gets a little more of our business with N/S between DTW and SAN/LAX/SNA, but it's still an 8 hour trip door to door

Can't be everything to everyone.

indufan

I think I acknowledged the tourism part of Wyoming. But JAC is, by far, the preferred destination for those people. Rest assured that Delta and SkyWest didn't dump Cody because they were making money hand over fist in the market.

DiverDave

That is good information, but I would still be surprised if Delta resumed service to SBA. I say this as a frequent flier who travels to the Central Coast several times a year, and I date back to the SLC-SBA regional jet service and the codeshare flights from LAX with AA.

I would be very grateful if I could avoid LAX (and SNA this upcoming trip) and fly the widget into SBA. But unfortunately for Virginia Avenue, SBA has seen an explosion in service over the fast five years. Back in the day, everything was a regional jet. Now Southwest has multiple flights a day in its continuing effort to dominate every California airport. The other airlines have added flights and I think all of them (AA, AS, and UA) operate at least a limited number of mainline flights.

Then you add fuel costs and crew shortages and I just don't see it being on Delta's radar any time soon. SBP might be a better choice for service, or heck even SMX which could maybe even manage some sort of subsidy or grant.

But back on topic, yes SLC is smaller than DEN but as noted by others above SLC has much less competition so it is better for Delta. (Southwest is getting a bunch of new gates as the DEN terminal expands.) Not to mention that I expect Southwest does a decent job of keeping DEN fares low.

I would expect that Southwest is begging for more gate space at SLC as the terminal continues to expand, which of course would not be Ed's preference.

David

Dawgfan6291

Why?

drastic Southwest at SLC makes little sense. They have a nice network for O&D and will flow connections over the much larger operations they have at DEN/LAS/PHX (and even to a point places like LAX/OAK/DAL/HOU). Also Delta has done a pretty good job of kicking Southwest's ... at its core hubs. They haven't done much in places like SLC/ATL but get smaller......

If anyone expands at SLC it will likely be NK/F9 and I doubt Ed cares much about that.

DiverDave

Southwest offers nonstop flights from SLC to 17 destinations. That's 30 flights a day compared to a total of 245 for Delta and Skywest. That is a decent sized station for WN.

Frontier has 4 and Spirit has 0 according to the airport stats: https://slcairport.com/assets/pdfDoc...by-Airline.pdf

Southwest goes where the money and people are. That's why they opened Colorado Springs which is just down the (heavily congested) road from their large operation at DEN.

SLC was heavily gate constrained prior to the new terminal, I expect that will be a lot different once the new terminal is built out. 46 regular gates now (not counting hardstands) and 30 more to come....

David

Dawgfan6291

I'm not sure how this is 2+2=4. Also not sure what opening a new market (COS) has to do with expanding in an existing market that already has quite a bit of coverage for the size of that marketplace and a marketplace WN has struggled in relative to PHX/DEN/LAS.

Delta's size at SLC doesn't really mean anything to Southwest. Again, Southwest is going to keep flowing connections over DEN/PHX/LAS so any growth would be O&D targeted. Frankly that isn't a big number for SLC. Outside of ATL (which IIRC either WN or FL attempted and failed) Southwest already hits all the top markets from SLC.

And probably most importantly, Southwest had a bigger next work (and more gates) at SLC after buying Morris air and has slowly but surely cut the network down to be move O&D focuses while pushing connections over larger markets (ie DEN) when they have a larger presence.


Oh and someone can correct me if I'm wrong, but I'm pretty sure all the gates that are actually being built right now are spoken for. Delta is doing quite a bit of bus gating that will be shifted over to A/B once the concourses are finished.

Oh and edit to add, NK starts flights to SLC this month, IIRC.