IDB due to system error
 

I have an interesting case of which I am curious what my rights are because the situation is not described anywhere:

Trip is GOT-CDG-SEA-LAS on all on same day,

GOT-CDG 06:50 - 09:10 Operated ON TIME ( Flown)
CDG-SEA 10:15- 11:15 Operated with a delay of approx 1 hour (Flown)
SEA-LAS 3.33PM - 5.58PM Operated on time ( Involuntarily Denied Boarding, due to system error)
eventually rebooked to SEA-LAS 7.40 PM - 10.05 PM which operated ON TIME and that i flew.

So i arrive at SEA from CDG with a delay at 12.25 PM. My next flight was scheduled at 3.33PM and was on time which gave me a connection time of over 3 hours.
However my KLM and my DL app informs me that my SEA-LAS flight is disrupted (which was not the case) and that I was rebooked to a flight that departed the day before!!! ( thats why conclusion is system error)

At the Delta check in at SEA they said they could not do anything and that I have to contact KLM. So I contacted KLM, to rebook me on the 3.33 PM flight. They could not do it because this flight was now sold out. I was rebooked on a SEA-LAS flight departing 7.40
and arrived 10.05 PM.

So I arrived over 4 hours later at my destination, because of a system error at KLM/DL which threw me off the flight and unable to rebook because sold out.

I filed for EU261 with KLM. This was denied because the SEA-LAS flight is not originating in EU and not operated by EU Airline.
On the DOT-website I read that you are entitled to 400% of one way fare compensation ( how is this calculated) if your IDB is not because of aircraft change, weight and balance, or downgrading and if you were holding a valid reservation and showed up at check-in (and gate) on time.

What would be my best move? should I claim with DL or KLM for bumping me of the fligth referring to the compesation rules as described by DOT? For me it is impossible to check if KL or DL system bumped me. Shoudl I claim at DL because flight was operated by DL, or at KLM because it was their ticket?

Thanks for your thoughts

1. DL should have had control of the ticket by the time you arrived into SEA. I'm surprised that they couldn't fix it, but perhaps the system thought that you no showed and cancelled the rest of the ticket.

2. Given 1., do you have more segments on the ticket/PNR? If so check with KLM that the rst of your travel hasn't been cancelled.

3. There's an amazingly extensive and informative thread in the BA forum on EC261 rules. AFAIK since you arrived into SEA late (as part of an exEU ticket/EU carrier), EC261 rules should apply and give compensation.

4. The USA DOT rule would only give a percentage of the fare allocated to the segment where boarding was denied, which probably won't be much even if 400% applies.

5. Also, note that the USA DOT rules only apply if your case satisfies their criteria for IDB, which included the requirement that the flight must be oversold. I suspect that you may have lost the seat because standby passengers were cleared onto the flight, although it would help if you could tell us how much time there was between scheduled departure time and when you reached KLM.

6. DL can argue that you didn't have a ticket, even if this was due to a system error.

If this is all on one ticket, it is a clear EU261 claim. It is the delay to your final destination that counts.

Were your bags tagged through on the original DL flight from SEA?

If so then this is clear cut EU261 case. They couldn't have done that otherwise. The question then is why did system show you needed to be rebooked. Was it weather and then they found crew? ATC reduction and then allowed? Etc... Since both DL and AF/KL system showed cancel, something happened. Beed to know what to determine if compensation applies.

Not sure how long ago your trip was, but I filed an EC261 claim with KL for a flight last December that I’ve had no response to. How did you get your claim reviewed so fast?

I have my KL claim number but can’t find anywhere on the website to enter the claim number to find the status, nor have I received any email or phone outreach. How were you notified your claim was denied?

This is the difficult point. Officially its a NON-EU airlines and flith operated outside the EU. However there are know court rulings over this in the favor of customer for example this one https://eur-lex.europa.eu/legal-cont...%3A62017CJ0537

Yes it was tagged through to LAS, though you have to collect and re-check at first point of entry in the USA, so I got my luggage, however I was not allowed to re-check, because they said the ticket was no longer valid.

It was roughly 2 weeks ago. I am in the lucky position to be Flying Blue Ultimate, so I have a PA that took the matter, and responded after a few days.

Issue to your claim is determing what happened and why to your ticket. The flight is covered even though not ex-EU as you bought as part of one fare. The main issue there is that all the flights were sold as same carrier. Ie SEA-LAS was sold as AF/KL/DL and so were the EU flights. If it was marketed different the airline can make a case it doesn't.

You need to ask AF (not KLM) why you were removed from the original SEA-LAS as it operated as scheduled. AF or DL (depending if they operated CDG-SEA) could either be responsible for paying. If AF operated CDG-SEA then 100% is AF responsibility.

This sadly is not IDB under US DOT rules unless flight went out full and you had a valid ticket.

last question. Did CDG-SEA have any delay posted, that was then shortened?

That is one of my issues with IDB years ago, I had a flight where my outbound had issues and they DL rebooked me on another airline. When I showed up at the airport for my return, the ticket had been cancelled, since and had not taken the outbound. and my original return flights were sold out and had to take a much later flight. I did contact the FAA later, and argued the system error was caused by DL so unsure how they A) get a free pass on that and B) did not force me on the original flight since I had a confirmed reservation. This was during the merger so I was Northwest PLT at the time, versus DL. I am sure if I was DL I would have had a different result.

About your point 3. It concerned a segment SEA-LAX in Z-class. on average the fare seems to be around 340usd. would it be that times 4? Or do they somehow calculate what the segment cost within my original fare ( Which most likely they can't because DL doesnt know what I payed). thanks!

I doubt that EC261 would apply to a SEA-LAX segment unless you're talking about a missed connection from a delayed TATL flight.

I think we need to know:
1) specifically what airline ticketed this? It sounds like KLM, but you haven't actually said.
2) which airlines actually flew which segments? Were all flights under the ticketing airline's flight numbers?

It seems to me that because this was a technical problem, you'll have to address your issues to the ticketing airline. I don't have tons of experience with this, but it does seem that it should be covered by EC261. The trip originated in Europe, and started out on an EU airline's metal. You ended up hours late in LAS because of THEIR error. I think perhaps your earlier claim was not correctly filed and dealt just with one flight to LAS instead of treating the entire trip as a whole, with an interruption in the middle.

Even if they ultimately deny your 261 compensation, they should at least give you a bunch of miles and apologize for their error.

I meant point 4 sorry lol.. howmuch would DL pay under this DOT 400% rule and how do they calcuate it?

Yes KLM
AF and DL metal