BigFlyer

I have a Delta ecredit. The rules and conditions say that it can only be used for "DL Designated Flights Operated by DL,9E,OO", but delta.com will let me book a KLM operated flight under the Delta flight number so it seems they are not going by the rules.

I have two questions - first, can I somehow buy a KLM ticket from Delta - in other words a KLM flight with a KLM flight number with the KLM fare?

Second question, if the answer to the above is "yes", can I use an ecredit.

(I want a KLM ticket because the refundabilty rules are more liberal than Delta, and KLM fares allow free seat selection for elites on their equivalent of basic economy fares.)

DrMilano

Delta.com will only show Delta coded KLM metal flights such as DL9XXX. No way around this.

BigFlyer

Right, I get that. I was wondering if it might be possible on the phone (of course getting through to an agent is not easy these days.)

VFR

You can use ITA Matrix Powertools to get delta.com to sell you an all-KL marketed itinerary (though it seems limited to JV routes).




On the payment screen, it does seem to be possible to use an eCredit to pay for this.

BigFlyer

Thanks. I've tried that - but delta.com modifies and reprices the reservation at the Standard fare, despite the fact that ITA priced it at the Light fare. There is zero benefit to me in paying for the Standard fare over the Light fare, as KLM gives me free seat selection, a free bag, and a totally refundable fare at the Light level.

VFR

Yeah, I did notice that you can't book AF/KL-marketed basic economy fares on delta.com.

A telephone agent may be able to do more, though you'll have to be very clear with what you're asking.

Out of curiosity, I see that KL lets you get a voucher if you cancel your flight, but I don't see anything about being totally refundable. I suppose getting a KL voucher out of a DL eCredit is basically the same thing (if it even works that way).

BigFlyer

If you scroll down on the page link to below, you will see a section titled " Request a refund in the form of a refundable travel voucher." I have done this once and refunded the voucher for cash.

The refundable voucher policy is only for tickets booked before 3/1/22 with a departure before 7/1/22. For tickets not meeting that description, you still get free changes, including on Light fares. The Light fares on KLM seem to be about $30 more expensive round-trip than the Delta Basic Economy fare. https://www.klm.us/information/covid-19/rebook-cancel

VFR

The European airlines charge a GDS surcharge -- if you look on KLM.com you'll find the KL Light fare for the same price as the Delta Basic Economy fare.

BigFlyer

Live and learn - just did two dummy bookings, and indeed, klm.com does price the same as delta.com.

However, it looks I will be stuck paying the GDS fee, as the itinerary I want cannot be booked on klm.com - klm.com generally does not allow one to book an open jaw as a Light fare, only as a Standard fare. See these threads that I started:

Forcing an Overnight in AMS Results in Different Fares Depending on Booking Channel

KLM/AF Online Booking Engine (Mostly) Omits Light/Basic Economy Fares from Results

smartytravel

Be careful. IF you buy a KL-coded ticket on the 006 Delta stock, you are still bound by Delta’s refundability rules. KLM’s refund will not apply.

Klm will tell you to go to your agent, Delta in this instance, who won’t do it.

flyerCO

DL will only apply KLM refund policy if the fare is a KLM fare. Ie book AMS-HEL with DL, there's no DL fares,, only KLM. DL will apply KLM rules here.

Book IAH-AMS KL661, DL has a fare, despite booking as KL661, DL rules will still apply.

VFR

This is getting super-technical, but I think it depends on whether DL has a fare filed in the market that permits wholly KL flights numbers. For example, the Delta fare VL1X26B2 on ITA Matrix says:

There doesn't seem to be a DL fare in this market that allows booking KL flight numbers for the transatlantic segment (probably because they don't want travel agencies doing off-plating).

You'll be subject to the fare rules of the fare you bought, and just because you have KL flight numbers does not mean you have a KL fare. It's quite possible delta.com is using some internal DL fares that are not available to ITA Matrix that allow booking KL flight numbers (but which probably have the Delta fare rules).

BigFlyer

What is the source of this - have you had DL apply DL fare rules to a KLM flight> AFAIK, when one carrier sells a ticket another carrier, they are doing so as an agent of the carrier whose flight number appears on the ticket.

As far as changes (not refundability) goes, looking in Expert Flyer for the SFO-AMS market, the cheapest fares are a DL VL1X46B2 fare and a KLM VL1X46B2 fare.

In the Delta fare rule, when you get past all of the temporary exceptions for Covid, it says "CHARGE USD 199.00/CAD 199.00 FOR REISSUE/>

The KLM fare rule is much shorter and simply says "Changes Permitted."

I don't see anything in either of the rules that suggests that a ticket issued by DL with a KLM flight number would not be subject to KLM fare rules. If Delta applied DL rules in such a situation (which is certainly possible), they would be wrong.

The above is the change policy, not refundability. I don't believe the refundabilty is in the fare rules, as it is a temporary accommodation. However, KLM does seem to take the position that tickets issued by travel agents are also refundable:

Unfortunately, you cannot use our online refund system if you booked via a travel agent. We advise contacting your travel agent first, as they have all the needed information to arrange your refund. You can find contact details on their website. If you prefer, you can also contact us directly to help arrange your refund. https://www.klm.nl/en/information/co.../rebook-cancel

Again, it certainly wouldn't shock me if DL applied DL rules to KLM flight number tickets, but that would be contrary to the fare rules. That also might be one reason that delta.com won't book a KLM Light fare when the itinerary is sent over by ITA - the Light fare has the major divergence from the BE fare on Delta, the Standard ticket permanent rules are basically the same on refundability.

flyerCO

This is what I'm saying. Marketing doesn't matter, whose fare it is does. DL will sell any AF/KL fare even if no DL segments they'll sell it. (They can technically sell a UA fare, just by policy they dont)

When an airline sell OAL fare they're basically acting as a travel agent. Thus why they only do it for certain partners.

flyerCO

The flight number isn't what matters. I gave examples to show this. DL has fares that allow using the KL flight number (even for DL operated the fare can allow use of KL flight number)
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What matters is which airlines fare is used. Unless DL sells you a KLM fare, KLM refund policy won't apply.. Also KLM refunds to the form of payment. As this was an unused eticket (an ecredit), you would simply end up with another ecredit. It wouldn't go back to credit card.