DL Cuts MNL?

Old May 11, 21, 8:56 am
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DL Cuts MNL?

I think DL was to resume ICN-MNL in November, but it appears now that MNL has been completely removed from schedules. Can anyone confirm?
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Old May 11, 21, 10:12 am
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ICN-MNL is gone from the schedule.

Its worth noting that the original reason DL was planning to fly the route was due to the fact that Korean Airlines was limited to 2 landing slots in MNL, and (PreCovid) demand from ICN to MNL far exceeded what could be served by only two planes. A work around was to essentially have Delta fly the route in addition, thus giving Korean (via their partnership with Delta) another slot and plane to sell ICN-MNL tickets on. With Covid, the demand for ICN-MNL has decreased, and thus there may no longer be a need for Delta to fly it.

Last edited by kavok; May 11, 21 at 11:32 am
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Old May 11, 21, 10:24 am
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Interesting background info! It was one of the strangest flights on the schedule, I was wondering why it existed.
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Old May 11, 21, 10:24 am
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Can DL keep the slot and possibly bring the route back later?
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Old May 11, 21, 12:19 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Can DL keep the slot and possibly bring the route back later?
Unsure. I dont know the rules surrounding the MNL slots. I believe the slots at MNL are assigned and capped per country, and thus I would guess if no other US airline picked the slot up, then I would guess DL could probably get it back. Someone else may know more.
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Old May 11, 21, 1:35 pm
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For years this was xxx-NRT-MNL and was a very popular route, particularly the NRT-MNL which was normally packed. Didn't Delta also have some govt contracts for the route so thats why it stayed with the fly-america GSA requiring US flagged carriers?
Don't think it ever really had a chance as ICN-MNL due to the covid shutdowns.
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Old May 11, 21, 1:42 pm
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I believe a US carrier's codeshare flight counts for Fly America purposes, so GSA can book the DL-marketed flights on KE.
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Old May 11, 21, 3:55 pm
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Originally Posted by rylan
For years this was xxx-NRT-MNL and was a very popular route, particularly the NRT-MNL which was normally packed. Didn't Delta also have some govt contracts for the route so thats why it stayed with the fly-america GSA requiring US flagged carriers?
Originally Posted by VFR
I believe a US carrier's codeshare flight counts for Fly America purposes, so GSA can book the DL-marketed flights on KE.
VFR is correct. The "Fly America" act can be skirted/worked-around via codeshares. Or rather, US-carrier marketed code-shares on non-US carrier operated flights comply with the "Fly America" act.

For example, since B6 codeshares with EK, one can go to the GSA website (https://cpsearch.fas.gsa.gov/cpsearch/search.do) and note that B6 has the GSA City-Pair contract between many US cities and Dubai, but obviously B6 isn't operating the legs to/through DXB - these legs are clearly operated by EK. In fact, no US carrier serves DXB right now so a flight on a partner (marketed as a codeshare) is required at some point to get to DXB from any US city. Out of SEA, AA has the GSA city-pair on SEA-LHR (advertised as "nonstop"), which is actually operated by BA and UA has the GSA city-pair contract for SEA-FRA (also advertised as "nonstop"), which is actually operated by LH.
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Old May 11, 21, 4:41 pm
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Originally Posted by Tanaka07
I think DL was to resume ICN-MNL in November, but it appears now that MNL has been completely removed from schedules. Can anyone confirm?
I this flight booked for November and figured it was being canceled when Isaw a few days ago the ICN-MNL-ICN legs were modified to show I was now in Delta One on an MD-88!

Hopefully it will come back some day, but it seems unlikely.

Originally Posted by rylan
For years this was xxx-NRT-MNL and was a very popular route, particularly the NRT-MNL which was normally packed. Didn't Delta also have some govt contracts for the route so thats why it stayed with the fly-america GSA requiring US flagged carriers?
Don't think it ever really had a chance as ICN-MNL due to the covid shutdowns.
Only a few years ago, before Delta moved to MNL Terminal 3 and closed the SkyClub, it was even a twice-daily widebody during the holiday season. Of course, NRT-MNL was a carryover from the NW days, and I remember also when MNL had year-round service with daily multiple flights that included NGO-MNL and KIX-MNL.

Does this mark the end of DL intra-asia flying?
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Old May 11, 21, 4:46 pm
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Originally Posted by OldAsiaHand
I this flight booked for November and figured it was being canceled when I saw a few days ago the ICN-MNL-ICN legs were modified to show I was now in Delta One on an MD-88!
You should have screenshotted that!

Originally Posted by OldAsiaHand
Does this mark the end of DL intra-asia flying?
There are currently no intra-Asia routes operating. Whether or not that's permanent, probably nobody really knows.
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Old May 11, 21, 5:07 pm
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Originally Posted by kjnangre
You should have screenshotted that!.
I would if I could, but image posting not allowed until after 5 posts. Since it took me well over a decade of reading FT before finally registering, no telling when I will make it to #5!
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Old May 11, 21, 5:16 pm
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Originally Posted by OldAsiaHand
I would if I could, but image posting not allowed until after 5 posts. Since it took me well over a decade of reading FT before finally registering, no telling when I will make it to #5!
Haha!! On the bright side, you doubled your post count (from 1 to 2) in less than 30 minutes
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Old May 16, 21, 10:39 am
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Quite upset that DL is pulling out of MNL, so I hope this is only temporary. I had LAX-MNL booked for Christmas (KE/DL going to MNL; all-DL going back to LAX) and I'm quite bummed that now I can't use a GUC the whole way back now so I could enjoy D1.

Post-COVID I expect MNL-Korea travel to really rebound, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.

Originally Posted by kavok
ICN-MNL is gone from the schedule.

Its worth noting that the original reason DL was planning to fly the route was due to the fact that Korean Airlines was limited to 2 landing slots in MNL, and (PreCovid) demand from ICN to MNL far exceeded what could be served by only two planes. A work around was to essentially have Delta fly the route in addition, thus giving Korean (via their partnership with Delta) another slot and plane to sell ICN-MNL tickets on. With Covid, the demand for ICN-MNL has decreased, and thus there may no longer be a need for Delta to fly it.
Originally Posted by kjnangre
Interesting background info! It was one of the strangest flights on the schedule, I was wondering why it existed.
Not exactly: DL had to (somewhat) cannibalize KE's entitlements because Philippine authorities insisted that ICN-MNL on DL be served under the terms of the PH-KR bilateral. The CAB shot down the possibility of DL/KE going around the limitations of the PH-KR bilateral by claiming that DL was serving MNL under the terms of the PH-US bilateral.

While there would be three (sometimes four during peak season) flights on KE and DL, KE would've had to downgauge one of their flights to accommodate DL. I know the peak season KE midnight flight sometimes used 737s; it would've likely happened that keeping that 737 would be made permanent in order to accommodate a DL A339. Or perhaps downgauging another flight as well (not sure which one of the other flights would be though.)

Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
Can DL keep the slot and possibly bring the route back later?
Originally Posted by kavok
Unsure. I don’t know the rules surrounding the MNL slots. I believe the slots at MNL are assigned and capped per country, and thus I would guess if no other US airline picked the slot up, then I would guess DL could probably get it back. Someone else may know more.
They should be able to, especially with COVID. I'm not entirely sure how MNL slots work but an airline that wants to fly to MNL will get slots, especially in the current environment.

Originally Posted by VFR
I believe a US carrier's codeshare flight counts for Fly America purposes, so GSA can book the DL-marketed flights on KE.
Originally Posted by ATOBTTR
VFR is correct. The "Fly America" act can be skirted/worked-around via codeshares. Or rather, US-carrier marketed code-shares on non-US carrier operated flights comply with the "Fly America" act.

For example, since B6 codeshares with EK, one can go to the GSA website (https://cpsearch.fas.gsa.gov/cpsearch/search.do) and note that B6 has the GSA City-Pair contract between many US cities and Dubai, but obviously B6 isn't operating the legs to/through DXB - these legs are clearly operated by EK. In fact, no US carrier serves DXB right now so a flight on a partner (marketed as a codeshare) is required at some point to get to DXB from any US city. Out of SEA, AA has the GSA city-pair on SEA-LHR (advertised as "nonstop"), which is actually operated by BA and UA has the GSA city-pair contract for SEA-FRA (also advertised as "nonstop"), which is actually operated by LH.
DL doesn't codeshare with KE on ICN-MNL. Yes, DL can sell KE's MNL flights, but their codes aren't on them.

Last edited by Akiestar; May 16, 21 at 10:47 am
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Old May 17, 21, 4:51 am
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Originally Posted by Akiestar
Quite upset that DL is pulling out of MNL, so I hope this is only temporary. I had LAX-MNL booked for Christmas (KE/DL going to MNL; all-DL going back to LAX) and I'm quite bummed that now I can't use a GUC the whole way back now so I could enjoy D1.

Post-COVID I expect MNL-Korea travel to really rebound, so I'm keeping my fingers crossed.





Not exactly: DL had to (somewhat) cannibalize KE's entitlements because Philippine authorities insisted that ICN-MNL on DL be served under the terms of the PH-KR bilateral. The CAB shot down the possibility of DL/KE going around the limitations of the PH-KR bilateral by claiming that DL was serving MNL under the terms of the PH-US bilateral.

While there would be three (sometimes four during peak season) flights on KE and DL, KE would've had to downgauge one of their flights to accommodate DL. I know the peak season KE midnight flight sometimes used 737s; it would've likely happened that keeping that 737 would be made permanent in order to accommodate a DL A339. Or perhaps downgauging another flight as well (not sure which one of the other flights would be though.)





They should be able to, especially with COVID. I'm not entirely sure how MNL slots work but an airline that wants to fly to MNL will get slots, especially in the current environment.





DL doesn't codeshare with KE on ICN-MNL. Yes, DL can sell KE's MNL flights, but their codes aren't on them.
This doesn't make sense if KE could have flown the thrid flight they would have. DL only was to fly ICN-MNL because KE couldn't and DL couldn't operate HND-MNL once NRT was gone.
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Old May 17, 21, 9:47 am
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Originally Posted by flyerCO
This doesn't make sense if KE could have flown the thrid flight they would have. DL only was to fly ICN-MNL because KE couldn't and DL couldn't operate HND-MNL once NRT was gone.
There was so much MNL-Korea demand pre-COVID that I imagine KE would've put down a third flight even if DL was flying it as well. What I meant in this case was that Philippine authorities didn't allow DL to serve ICN-MNL on its own using its own entitlement; it insisted that for it to do so, it had to use part of KE's entitlements under the terms of the PH-KR bilateral.

That said, the Philippines has been negotiating for more liberal air service agreements with various countries, and South Korea is no exception; the existing bilateral is pretty much open skies for all PH-KR routes save for those ex-MNL. I imagine that once the new airport opens (whether it's SGL or Bulacan or whatever), we'll hit full open skies and we wouldn't have to require DL cannibalizing KE's entitlements.
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