No Seat Power and no one knows how to reset it
May 5, 2021, 8:41 pm
#1
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No Seat Power and no one knows how to reset it
I've had 2 flights in the last week where the seat power was not operational for my pair of seats in F. There was a RED light on the outlet panel and no power. All other seats in F had power and their status indicator lights were GREEN. One was on a 739 and the other on an A320.
The flights were the last ones of my day and I needed power for my electronics who's batteries had run down.
My understanding is that the seat power is not 15A service but that it's limited to 45W, which is only 3A. There were many notebooks a few years ago who's power packs drew 45W but the minimum nowadays seems to be 65W with many notebook computers using 90 and even 135W. When a device is plugged in which draws more power than a circuit is designed for, a circuit breaker trips and prevents the overload.
I brought this situation to the lead FA's attention before the boarding door was closed and got nowhere. In both cases the FA thought that:
a} changing from ground to engine power would correct the situation which is not the case.
b) resetting the IFE system would fix it. It won't since it has nothing to do with the IFE.
c) they would have to to write it up for TechOps to handle. Also not true.
There are circuit breakers on the aircraft for these circuits that can be reset and they can only be in one of 3 places - integrated in the power plug panel at the seat, at the FA's station or in the cockpit. Supposedly, both of them checked with the cockpit (which I don't believe) without getting any resolution.
SO -
DELTA - how can you 'qualify' flight crews who don't know how to handle a situation like this? (It's just like the FA's who still announce that Wi-Fi will be turned on when the aircraft reaches 10,0000 feet even though all mainline aircraft now have gate to gate wi-fi.)
It's also my understanding that newer aircraft are equipped with larger capacity seat power and it might be something to address on older aircraft when heavy checks are performed since all of the equipment and wiring is exposed and checked.
Why not add this to the final cleaning checklist so Tech Ops could handle it before boarding if that's what's required?
The flights were the last ones of my day and I needed power for my electronics who's batteries had run down.
My understanding is that the seat power is not 15A service but that it's limited to 45W, which is only 3A. There were many notebooks a few years ago who's power packs drew 45W but the minimum nowadays seems to be 65W with many notebook computers using 90 and even 135W. When a device is plugged in which draws more power than a circuit is designed for, a circuit breaker trips and prevents the overload.
I brought this situation to the lead FA's attention before the boarding door was closed and got nowhere. In both cases the FA thought that:
a} changing from ground to engine power would correct the situation which is not the case.
b) resetting the IFE system would fix it. It won't since it has nothing to do with the IFE.
c) they would have to to write it up for TechOps to handle. Also not true.
There are circuit breakers on the aircraft for these circuits that can be reset and they can only be in one of 3 places - integrated in the power plug panel at the seat, at the FA's station or in the cockpit. Supposedly, both of them checked with the cockpit (which I don't believe) without getting any resolution.
SO -
DELTA - how can you 'qualify' flight crews who don't know how to handle a situation like this? (It's just like the FA's who still announce that Wi-Fi will be turned on when the aircraft reaches 10,0000 feet even though all mainline aircraft now have gate to gate wi-fi.)
It's also my understanding that newer aircraft are equipped with larger capacity seat power and it might be something to address on older aircraft when heavy checks are performed since all of the equipment and wiring is exposed and checked.
Why not add this to the final cleaning checklist so Tech Ops could handle it before boarding if that's what's required?
May 5, 2021, 9:05 pm
#2
Join Date: Jul 2017
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Posts: 1,117
I've had 2 flights in the last week where the seat power was not operational for my pair of seats in F. There was a RED light on the outlet panel and no power. All other seats in F had power and their status indicator lights were GREEN. One was on a 739 and the other on an A320.
The flights were the last ones of my day and I needed power for my electronics who's batteries had run down.
My understanding is that the seat power is not 15A service but that it's limited to 45W, which is only 3A. There were many notebooks a few years ago who's power packs drew 45W but the minimum nowadays seems to be 65W with many notebook computers using 90 and even 135W. When a device is plugged in which draws more power than a circuit is designed for, a circuit breaker trips and prevents the overload.
I brought this situation to the lead FA's attention before the boarding door was closed and got nowhere. In both cases the FA thought that:
a} changing from ground to engine power would correct the situation which is not the case.
b) resetting the IFE system would fix it. It won't since it has nothing to do with the IFE.
c) they would have to to write it up for TechOps to handle. Also not true.
There are circuit breakers on the aircraft for these circuits that can be reset and they can only be in one of 3 places - integrated in the power plug panel at the seat, at the FA's station or in the cockpit. Supposedly, both of them checked with the cockpit (which I don't believe) without getting any resolution.
SO -
DELTA - how can you 'qualify' flight crews who don't know how to handle a situation like this? (It's just like the FA's who still announce that Wi-Fi will be turned on when the aircraft reaches 10,0000 feet even though all mainline aircraft now have gate to gate wi-fi.)
It's also my understanding that newer aircraft are equipped with larger capacity seat power and it might be something to address on older aircraft when heavy checks are performed since all of the equipment and wiring is exposed and checked.
Why not add this to the final cleaning checklist so Tech Ops could handle it before boarding if that's what's required?
The flights were the last ones of my day and I needed power for my electronics who's batteries had run down.
My understanding is that the seat power is not 15A service but that it's limited to 45W, which is only 3A. There were many notebooks a few years ago who's power packs drew 45W but the minimum nowadays seems to be 65W with many notebook computers using 90 and even 135W. When a device is plugged in which draws more power than a circuit is designed for, a circuit breaker trips and prevents the overload.
I brought this situation to the lead FA's attention before the boarding door was closed and got nowhere. In both cases the FA thought that:
a} changing from ground to engine power would correct the situation which is not the case.
b) resetting the IFE system would fix it. It won't since it has nothing to do with the IFE.
c) they would have to to write it up for TechOps to handle. Also not true.
There are circuit breakers on the aircraft for these circuits that can be reset and they can only be in one of 3 places - integrated in the power plug panel at the seat, at the FA's station or in the cockpit. Supposedly, both of them checked with the cockpit (which I don't believe) without getting any resolution.
SO -
DELTA - how can you 'qualify' flight crews who don't know how to handle a situation like this? (It's just like the FA's who still announce that Wi-Fi will be turned on when the aircraft reaches 10,0000 feet even though all mainline aircraft now have gate to gate wi-fi.)
It's also my understanding that newer aircraft are equipped with larger capacity seat power and it might be something to address on older aircraft when heavy checks are performed since all of the equipment and wiring is exposed and checked.
Why not add this to the final cleaning checklist so Tech Ops could handle it before boarding if that's what's required?
May 5, 2021, 9:09 pm
#3
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There's nothing a FA can do for an individual power outlet. There's circuit breakers, but it's not at the individual seat level. Basically they can turn them all off/all on. They can't just do your seat.
To get fixed, must send write up to maintenance. Getting maintenance out to fix one broken outlet isn't practical. For short domestic turns anyway. If this was a say D1 seat on A330 going international then it's more worthy. (Also I believe there's normally maintenance at plane for long haul international departures)
To get fixed, must send write up to maintenance. Getting maintenance out to fix one broken outlet isn't practical. For short domestic turns anyway. If this was a say D1 seat on A330 going international then it's more worthy. (Also I believe there's normally maintenance at plane for long haul international departures)
May 5, 2021, 9:35 pm
#4
Join Date: Feb 2017
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My understanding is that the seat power is not 15A service but that it's limited to 45W, which is only 3A. There were many notebooks a few years ago who's power packs drew 45W but the minimum nowadays seems to be 65W with many notebook computers using 90 and even 135W. When a device is plugged in which draws more power than a circuit is designed for, a circuit breaker trips and prevents the overload.
That said, on the chargers it's the opposite of what you said... virtually no laptop has a 90-135W charger these days unless you're talking about a gaming laptop or an analytics/developer laptop workstation. I can't think of a single business oriented laptop that is above 65W. Laptops are such power sippers nowadays that they never really draw above 30W on their own (typically 5-7 watts when not under super high load, 2-5 watts when idle almost all going to power the screen), and their batteries are typically 40-60Wh. So 65W is enough to both power the laptop under load and charge the battery from empty in 90 minutes or less (assuming no trickle charging at the top end which there would be).
May 6, 2021, 6:08 am
#5
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Posts: 2,934
I have a very standard Dell XPS 15 and it virtually never charges with Delta power. The outlet doesn’t turn red but the green light goes out and power turns off. As soon as I unplug my laptop charger, it turns green again. A red light must mean something more is wrong.
May 6, 2021, 6:23 am
#6
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That said, on the chargers it's the opposite of what you said... virtually no laptop has a 90-135W charger these days unless you're talking about a gaming laptop or an analytics/developer laptop workstation. I can't think of a single business oriented laptop that is above 65W.
I never had a problem charging my old 15 on DL but I haven’t traveled with my 16 yet so don’t know if it would be problematic.
May 6, 2021, 6:55 am
#7
Join Date: Jun 2013
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Posts: 2,934
Speaking of equipment failures, has anyone else noticed the huge failure rate of the Panasonic AVOD lately? I feel like I get the "our entertainment system is experiencing technical difficulties, resulting in fewer options" message on more than half my flights. Usually sometime part way through the flight.
May 6, 2021, 7:52 am
#8
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Home
Posts: 469
That red light on the individual plug is an indication of 'local breaker' tripping.
There is one for each pair of plugs and as you experienced it trips both seats. The most likely cause could be a higher power demand beyond what the plug was supposed to provide. If I recall correctly from a discussion on FT few years ago, the combined limit for pair of seats is ~150 watts and so if only 1 laptop is plugged then it is possible to get >85 watts in one outlet but as soon as something is plugged into the other and power demand exceeds limit, CB will trip and both plugs will glow red.
One thing which usually works in this case is disconnect from plug, give it 2-3 mins to reset internally (might still be red) and then plug back while disconnected at the other end - make sure you are not drawing power at the other end. After few seconds - if you are lucky - the light will turn green. If it doesn't then only maintenance guys can fix it.
As flyerCO pointed out there is no 're settable' CB for individual seat power and the pilot only has a master switch to turn IFE and seat power on/off for the entire plane.
There is one for each pair of plugs and as you experienced it trips both seats. The most likely cause could be a higher power demand beyond what the plug was supposed to provide. If I recall correctly from a discussion on FT few years ago, the combined limit for pair of seats is ~150 watts and so if only 1 laptop is plugged then it is possible to get >85 watts in one outlet but as soon as something is plugged into the other and power demand exceeds limit, CB will trip and both plugs will glow red.
One thing which usually works in this case is disconnect from plug, give it 2-3 mins to reset internally (might still be red) and then plug back while disconnected at the other end - make sure you are not drawing power at the other end. After few seconds - if you are lucky - the light will turn green. If it doesn't then only maintenance guys can fix it.
As flyerCO pointed out there is no 're settable' CB for individual seat power and the pilot only has a master switch to turn IFE and seat power on/off for the entire plane.
May 6, 2021, 8:01 am
#9
Join Date: Mar 2015
Location: Home
Posts: 469
I have a very standard Dell XPS 15 and it virtually never charges with Delta power. The outlet doesn’t turn red but the green light goes out and power turns off. As soon as I unplug my laptop charger, it turns green again. A red light must mean something more is wrong.
These options are specifically for using airplane power as normal operation will not consume more then 20-25 watts of power.
With some setting tweaks you might be able to keep the power from going off.
May 6, 2021, 8:23 am
#10
Join Date: Mar 2016
Posts: 597
It is always hit-and-miss on Delta for me with my 2019 MacBook Pro 61W power brick. I just never know. It even soft-tripped the power outlet on a recently refurbished 767 in D1. The light goes red, until I unplugged, then goes back green.
May 6, 2021, 10:39 am
#11
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The max limit per the FAA is 100W, Delta's are rated for 75W but really they will run up to 90W without too much issue. Laptop transformers can handle a little voltage drop at the higher end of the wattage pull without issue.
That said, on the chargers it's the opposite of what you said... virtually no laptop has a 90-135W charger these days unless you're talking about a gaming laptop or an analytics/developer laptop workstation. I can't think of a single business oriented laptop that is above 65W. Laptops are such power sippers nowadays that they never really draw above 30W on their own (typically 5-7 watts when not under super high load, 2-5 watts when idle almost all going to power the screen), and their batteries are typically 40-60Wh. So 65W is enough to both power the laptop under load and charge the battery from empty in 90 minutes or less (assuming no trickle charging at the top end which there would be).
That said, on the chargers it's the opposite of what you said... virtually no laptop has a 90-135W charger these days unless you're talking about a gaming laptop or an analytics/developer laptop workstation. I can't think of a single business oriented laptop that is above 65W. Laptops are such power sippers nowadays that they never really draw above 30W on their own (typically 5-7 watts when not under super high load, 2-5 watts when idle almost all going to power the screen), and their batteries are typically 40-60Wh. So 65W is enough to both power the laptop under load and charge the battery from empty in 90 minutes or less (assuming no trickle charging at the top end which there would be).
You don't have to be a developer to need large screens, high storage capacity (just about every machine my clients get now has 2TB) and run demanding database and financial models.
While most of the PC use I see on-board is email and some web browsing, I see more and more people doing 'real' work.
May 6, 2021, 10:42 am
#12
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That red light on the individual plug is an indication of 'local breaker' tripping.
There is one for each pair of plugs and as you experienced it trips both seats. The most likely cause could be a higher power demand beyond what the plug was supposed to provide. If I recall correctly from a discussion on FT few years ago, the combined limit for pair of seats is ~150 watts and so if only 1 laptop is plugged then it is possible to get >85 watts in one outlet but as soon as something is plugged into the other and power demand exceeds limit, CB will trip and both plugs will glow red.
One thing which usually works in this case is disconnect from plug, give it 2-3 mins to reset internally (might still be red) and then plug back while disconnected at the other end - make sure you are not drawing power at the other end. After few seconds - if you are lucky - the light will turn green. If it doesn't then only maintenance guys can fix it.
As flyerCO pointed out there is no 're settable' CB for individual seat power and the pilot only has a master switch to turn IFE and seat power on/off for the entire plane.
There is one for each pair of plugs and as you experienced it trips both seats. The most likely cause could be a higher power demand beyond what the plug was supposed to provide. If I recall correctly from a discussion on FT few years ago, the combined limit for pair of seats is ~150 watts and so if only 1 laptop is plugged then it is possible to get >85 watts in one outlet but as soon as something is plugged into the other and power demand exceeds limit, CB will trip and both plugs will glow red.
One thing which usually works in this case is disconnect from plug, give it 2-3 mins to reset internally (might still be red) and then plug back while disconnected at the other end - make sure you are not drawing power at the other end. After few seconds - if you are lucky - the light will turn green. If it doesn't then only maintenance guys can fix it.
As flyerCO pointed out there is no 're settable' CB for individual seat power and the pilot only has a master switch to turn IFE and seat power on/off for the entire plane.
Now that I have something to try the next time it happens, there probably won't be a next time.
May 6, 2021, 10:53 am
#13
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I have a high performance laptop for work and the travel charger is 90w. In the office the workstation larger brick that powers a docking station and the laptop is 130w. I've never seen the travel charger trip the breaker, but I'm certain I am consuming nowhere near 90w as that would require both charging a dead battery on rapid setting and having the processor maxed out with full brightness display.
Anyway, yes the tip about plugging in something with low load is good. I've had to do that on some flights where the outlet had no light, so I simply plugged in my power supply with it disconnected from the laptop and it went green. If you pull too much power the outlet will shut itself off and take a little bit to reset as mentioned.
However, I have yet to get a red outlet to switch to green by doing this. Apparently the red is some internal fault/trip indicator. I was on a flight where they had multiple red outlets and the captain cycled the seat power breaker and it all returned to green.
Anyway, yes the tip about plugging in something with low load is good. I've had to do that on some flights where the outlet had no light, so I simply plugged in my power supply with it disconnected from the laptop and it went green. If you pull too much power the outlet will shut itself off and take a little bit to reset as mentioned.
However, I have yet to get a red outlet to switch to green by doing this. Apparently the red is some internal fault/trip indicator. I was on a flight where they had multiple red outlets and the captain cycled the seat power breaker and it all returned to green.
May 6, 2021, 11:45 pm
#14
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So, I'm curious, for those in-the-know on this thread... It's said the seat back IFE and power are unrelated, but it was the opposite on a recent AA flight - IFE was busted but they had to turn on the screens so our plugs would work. An individual seat is different than the entire system, so are they actually unrelated on DL? Or am I being pedantic in my quest for knowledge?
Nov 5, 2022, 4:51 pm
#15
Join Date: Nov 2022
Posts: 5
I little older thread, but thought I’d throw in my $.02. I’m currently in flight, 330-900neo, Comfort+. I’m using a power adapter that came with my M2 MacBook Air. It has two USB-C ports on the bottom of the plug. I plugged this in, upside down, so the cables came out out towards the top, and got the red light when plugged into an iPhone and an iPad Pro 11” (at the same time).
Unplugged adapter, removed iPad, and plugged it in so the cables were at the bottom. Got the green light and plugged in iPhone. All good. Then plugged in iPad. All still good.
HTH
Unplugged adapter, removed iPad, and plugged it in so the cables were at the bottom. Got the green light and plugged in iPhone. All good. Then plugged in iPad. All still good.
HTH