JFK-SEA A330-900neo “First Class”

Old Apr 21, 21, 7:02 pm
  #1  
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JFK-SEA A330-900neo “First Class”

Any reason this is labeled as a FC seat in the app and not D1? Obviously it is D1 on the A339. Flights in June on DL308/327. Just curious. I also wonder if anyone has a FC companion ticket if they would be able to try to do a dummy booking for this flight to see if it works. Unfortunately I used mine thankfully on D1 redemptions this year.
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Old Apr 21, 21, 7:06 pm
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There is a difference between D1 marketed flights and simply having D1 equipment (there are a number of routes out of DTW/ATL in May that have D1 equipment, but are FC marketed because they are not D1 routes). While JFK-SEA has D1 marketed flights on the route, sometimes they will have D1 equipment that is not D1 marketed. I did a test booking and the companion cert was accepting for at least some of these FC marketed flights. There's a built-in fare surcharge in domestic FC fares of $100 - $150 each way for flights including D1 equipment (the neo's get the $150 surcharge).

Looking at the fare rules for the D1 fares on this route, the issue here appears they have not updated the fare rules yet to include A330-900neo flights. Since it falls outside the scope of the D1 fares, it's booked as a regular FC fare. Presumably, they will update the equipment list in the D1 fare rules to include it at some point.

THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN JFK
AIRPORT AND SAN/SEA
ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE A330-200
ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS.
AND
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY DL FLIGHT.
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN JFK
AIRPORT AND SAN/SEA
ON AIRBUS INDUSTRIE 330-300
ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS.
AND
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY DL FLIGHT.
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN JFK
AIRPORT AND SAN/SEA
ON AIRBUS A359
ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS.
AND
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY DL FLIGHT.
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN JFK
AIRPORT AND SAN/SEA
ON BOEING 757 200 WINGLETS
ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS.
AND
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY DL FLIGHT.
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN JFK
AIRPORT AND SAN/SEA
ON BOEING 767-400
ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS.
AND
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY DL FLIGHT.
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN JFK
AIRPORT AND SAN/SEA
ON BOEING 767-300
ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS.
AND
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY DL FLIGHT.
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN JFK
AIRPORT AND SAN/SEA
ON BOEING 777
ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS.
AND
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST BE ON
ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING
ANY DL FLIGHT.
THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL BETWEEN JFK
AIRPORT AND SAN/SEA
ON BOEING 777-200LR
ON NONSTOP FLIGHTS.
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Last edited by xliioper; Apr 21, 21 at 7:43 pm
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Old Apr 21, 21, 7:15 pm
  #3  
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Interesting. Thanks for this reply. It seems like D1 marketed aircraft from JFK are pretty religiously LAX, SAN, and SFO. I’m sure I’m missing a couple TCON routes but doubt those routes (maybe partially LAS when they don’t put you on a 737) would ever be FC aircraft on their B752 or 763/764 aircrafts. Good to know.

Originally Posted by xliioper View Post
There is a difference between D1 marketed flights and simply having D1 equipment. While JFK-SEA has D1 marketed flights, sometimes they will do brief subs of D1 equipment on the route an not market those flights as D1. It looks like this is the case here.
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Old Apr 21, 21, 7:24 pm
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I was once told that delta can't get the D1 fare premium from the Seattle market like they do for CA. Maybe sea tech companies don't want their employees paying to ride up front...
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Old Apr 21, 21, 7:49 pm
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Originally Posted by p100a View Post
I was once told that delta can't get the D1 fare premium from the Seattle market like they do for CA. Maybe sea tech companies don't want their employees paying to ride up front...
I suspect the largest D1 premium comes on JFK-LAX where it's written into a lot of actors union contracts that they fly J. If you have to get an actor from one coast to the other, you might not like the cost, but you have no choice but to pay it.

JFK-SEA might suffer a bit because Amazon's policy is that everyone flies Y.
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Old Apr 21, 21, 7:49 pm
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Originally Posted by NY9 View Post
Interesting. Thanks for this reply. It seems like D1 marketed aircraft from JFK are pretty religiously LAX, SAN, and SFO. I’m sure I’m missing a couple TCON routes but doubt those routes (maybe partially LAS when they don’t put you on a 737) would ever be FC aircraft on their B752 or 763/764 aircrafts. Good to know.
So I updated my post after you posted. This is a D1 fare rules issue as DL hasn't updated them yet to include A330-900neo aircraft on domestic D1 routes, so they currently default into booking into FC fares. They did, however, manage to already add it to the FC surcharge equipment list in the FC fare rules (so, unfortunately, you'll be stuck with that). I'd fully expect them to update the D1 fare rules to include them in the not too distant future. Maybe they'll take out the 777s while they're at it (since they are gone now).

Last edited by xliioper; Apr 21, 21 at 8:01 pm
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Old Apr 21, 21, 9:50 pm
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Originally Posted by VFR View Post
I suspect the largest D1 premium comes on JFK-LAX where it's written into a lot of actors union contracts that they fly J. If you have to get an actor from one coast to the other, you might not like the cost, but you have no choice but to pay it.

JFK-SEA might suffer a bit because Amazon's policy is that everyone flies Y.
As a pre-COVID regular on JFK-SEA, the last time I was looking at these flights, there were 1-2 daily D1 flights and 2-3 daily flights as F. The problem is that Eastbound, the flight is too short to justify D1 and the redeye (which you want the 75S for and pay a premium for) was regular F on a 739 or 752. Westbound, the flight was long enough, but the timing of the D1 flight either did not fit within a business traveler's schedule or was so exorbitantly priced, that even on OPM, one could not justify the cost. Also, depending on your location in NYC, going to LGA or EWR, you would leave your hotel, take a flight with a quick connection through MSP or DTW and arrive in SEA at the same time as if you took the nonstop since you saved time not making the trek to JFK. Those flights were running about $400 one way in early 2020. The nonstop would often be $1600 or $2800. For those reasons, I never took one D1 JFK-SEA flight.
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Old Apr 22, 21, 9:51 am
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Pre-COVID, the 75S (with flat beds) often appeared on JFK-SEA and JFK-SLC marketed as first class. Marketing domestic flights as first or D1 is almost academic right now given the lack of inflight service either way -- not sure if anything more has come back recently but when I flew JFK-SFO D1 in December, the only thing that made it D1 besides the seat was the upgraded blanket and pillow. No amenity kit, same food and drink as any other domestic F flight, and the D1 seats always come with the "upgraded" headphones regardless of marketing since the seat needs a dual prong input.

It looks like right now the 339 is doing mostly Asia routes out of SEA plus JFK-TLV, so the JFK-SEA leg connects the two to move the fleet around. Then in terms of Delta's decision to label it F or D1, they seem to like to charge pretty steep prices for domestic D1 vs domestic F (regardless of whether any D1 services are actually being offered), and with a likely leisure-heavy customer base this summer plus a much larger than usual number of premium seats to fill, they probably figure they won't be able to sell enough seats at D1 pricing and would end up having to give it away for free as upgrades.
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Old Apr 22, 21, 12:13 pm
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There are a number of dates in May when you can find a D1 flight on JFK-SEA for a whopping $5 more than the 737 non-D1 flight ($499 vs. $494). And, yes, the D1 equipment is D1 marketed and carries a D1 fare.

Last edited by xliioper; Apr 22, 21 at 12:24 pm
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Old Apr 22, 21, 12:31 pm
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Originally Posted by xliioper View Post
There are a number of dates in May when you can find a D1 flight on JFK-SEA for a whopping $5 more than the 737 non-D1 flight ($499 vs. $494). And, yes, the D1 equipment is D1 marketed and carries a D1 fare.
Seattle in summer the last several years has had three kinds of flights to JFK:

* Delta One 757s.
* Lie flat 757s with no Delta one.
* 737s

There might have been other variants, but I've flown at least those 3 and several times.
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Old Apr 22, 21, 1:18 pm
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
Seattle in summer the last several years has had three kinds of flights to JFK:

* Delta One 757s.
* Lie flat 757s with no Delta one.
* 737s

There might have been other variants, but I've flown at least those 3 and several times.
Understood. Just responding to previous post about D1 fares generally being significantly more than FC fares. Clearly not the case right now with the cheapest D1 fare being only $5 more than the cheapest FC fare. The $499 D1 fare is fare basis XAVKA0DQ which has a 21-day advance purchase requirement. The 'D' in second to last letter indicates it as a D1 fare which means the flight will be D1 marketed and fare rules specifies lie-flat equipment only.

To reiterate what I posted above. The D1 fares on this route do not yet include A330-900neo equipment in the fare rules which is why the A330-900neo flights in June are FC marketed (because they have FC fares applied to them). FC fares will have an 'F' in the second to last letter of the fare basis code. While the $494 FC fares will be applied to the A330-900neo flights, because of the $150 surcharge in them for lie-flat equipment, they actually fare out to $655 ($150 surcharge + 7.5% US excise tax added to the $494 FC fare).

Last edited by xliioper; Apr 22, 21 at 1:33 pm
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Old Apr 22, 21, 1:58 pm
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Originally Posted by VFR View Post

JFK-SEA might suffer a bit because Amazon's policy is that everyone flies Y.
Including directors who were fired for upgrading to J...
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Old Apr 22, 21, 2:31 pm
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Originally Posted by fly747first View Post
Including directors who were fired for upgrading to J...
While bezos flies around in his G650.
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Old Apr 22, 21, 3:28 pm
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Originally Posted by fly747first View Post
Including directors who were fired for upgrading to J...
OP-UPs do occur, if a director received one were they required to reject it.
What about using RUCs or even GUCs?
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Old Apr 22, 21, 3:34 pm
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Originally Posted by nrr View Post
OP-UPs do occur, if a director received one were they required to reject it.
What about using RUCs or even GUCs?
I have a friend who is in HR at amz that constantly flew back and forth from Seattle to India via ams and always sat in economy. She said it was pure hell for such a long travel day.
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