Delta Gifts Employees Travel Passes as Thank You
Nov 27, 2020, 6:10 am
#31
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If treating your employees better than their union peers is “designing facets of the operation to center around avoiding FA unionization”, then yes, DL does a great job.
Nov 27, 2020, 9:16 am
#32
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DLs product is one that expires instantly. Once the plane leaves, an empty seat can't still be resold. The plane incurs the same costs if full or has 1 passenger on it.
Nov 27, 2020, 9:20 am
#33
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Also these have fare class restrictions. Cant just book the last Y seat.
Last edited by flyerCO; Nov 27, 2020 at 9:32 am
Nov 27, 2020, 9:31 am
#34
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In general, as an ex-AAirline employee myself, I wouldn't be so quick to assume the opportunity costs are so minor.
As Larry and others have said, an employee isn't going to use these on some last minute discretionary trip (many rainy DFW Saturday afternoons, I'd call Mom to see if she wants to go out for dinner tonight ... she lives in Tampa). These "positive space" (hold confirmed) passes will be used on the trips that I have to be there on a specific day (Brother's wedding), to the point that I would've purchased an advance fare ticket instead of risking non-rev.
I don't know about DL, but AA also offered unlimited ID20's. A 20 percent discount off any fare, any flight. Just like a "normal" passenger, the fare bucket I wanted had to be available and I had to comply with all fare rules. But an ID20 ticket is "hold confirmed" space, I can make seat assignments, earn miles, volunteer for oversale vouchers etc.
Over time (as my salary increased and as the internet grew [selling 'last minute' seats at substantial discounts]) I flew via ID20's more than on non-rev passes. I became AA Gold and one of FT's earlier members.
Every such pass given to me would be ID20 revenue lost. I did not require the flight to depart full to have lost that revenue.
Revenue is revenue. Period.
Any empty seat at departure (for almost any reason except IIROPS) is a failure of YM to 100% optimize the fare mix for that flight.
In an "absolute sense", most people think that it's the high fare tickets (and cargo) that makes the money.
The truth is that it took full mixture of all the tickets sold to eeek out a small profit. An airline can choose to only sell seats at the high fare buckets, but the plane is likely to go out half full and loose money. Or they can sell all seats at low fares, likely selling all seats, but still losing money.
It is the "optimized mixture" of fares that make a flight profitable.
Combing that "optimized mixture" concept with "passenger purchase behavior" changes the thought process.
While the high fares are needed, they are considered as simply "paying the bill" to operate the flight. The profit, if any, came from the lower fare buckets.
Those high fare tickets are more likely to have been passengers that were going to take the flight anyhow. To get the fare mix that the flight had requires, the airline to have lured in some discretionary passengers. They do this with low fares.
Most discretionary passengers don't think the same way as your typical FT'er. They aren't as likely to consider themselves as being loyal to any specific airline or hub captives etc. Their #1 purchase criteria is price. A $10 difference can be enough to make the sale.
If a DL employee has "purchased" a seat on the 2pm departure, that's one less seat to offer at that fare bucket's price. Even if they didn't take the last seat from that bucket, it is still more likely that bucket will sell out before departure. If a potential cusotmer is shopping after the bucket is sold out, then they'll see the 6pm departure $20 cheaper than the desired 2pm flight. They may purchase the 6pm, or they might go to AA.com and find (and purchase !!) a 2:15pm flight at the $20 lower fare.
DL has lost the revenue. It makes no difference if the flight ends up departing full or not.
To combine my thoughts with yours ....
When determining if there was an "opportunity cost" in providing a $0 positive space ticket for a given flight, it's irrelevant if the flight went out full or not.
What is relevant is if the specific fare class(es) that the employee ticket qualifies for, were ever sold out. In the pre-Covid world, those lower fare buckets will zero out (from sales or YM tweaking) on most flights. If those bucket(s) ever hit zero after the employee removed a seat from inventory, then it's highly likely there will be an opportunity cost for providing the pass. The fact that the passes will remain valid in a "post Covid world" means the possibility of there being an opportunity cost rises.
As Larry and others have said, an employee isn't going to use these on some last minute discretionary trip (many rainy DFW Saturday afternoons, I'd call Mom to see if she wants to go out for dinner tonight ... she lives in Tampa). These "positive space" (hold confirmed) passes will be used on the trips that I have to be there on a specific day (Brother's wedding), to the point that I would've purchased an advance fare ticket instead of risking non-rev.
I don't know about DL, but AA also offered unlimited ID20's. A 20 percent discount off any fare, any flight. Just like a "normal" passenger, the fare bucket I wanted had to be available and I had to comply with all fare rules. But an ID20 ticket is "hold confirmed" space, I can make seat assignments, earn miles, volunteer for oversale vouchers etc.
Over time (as my salary increased and as the internet grew [selling 'last minute' seats at substantial discounts]) I flew via ID20's more than on non-rev passes. I became AA Gold and one of FT's earlier members.
Every such pass given to me would be ID20 revenue lost. I did not require the flight to depart full to have lost that revenue.
Revenue is revenue. Period.
Any empty seat at departure (for almost any reason except IIROPS) is a failure of YM to 100% optimize the fare mix for that flight.
In an "absolute sense", most people think that it's the high fare tickets (and cargo) that makes the money.
The truth is that it took full mixture of all the tickets sold to eeek out a small profit. An airline can choose to only sell seats at the high fare buckets, but the plane is likely to go out half full and loose money. Or they can sell all seats at low fares, likely selling all seats, but still losing money.
It is the "optimized mixture" of fares that make a flight profitable.
Combing that "optimized mixture" concept with "passenger purchase behavior" changes the thought process.
While the high fares are needed, they are considered as simply "paying the bill" to operate the flight. The profit, if any, came from the lower fare buckets.
Those high fare tickets are more likely to have been passengers that were going to take the flight anyhow. To get the fare mix that the flight had requires, the airline to have lured in some discretionary passengers. They do this with low fares.
Most discretionary passengers don't think the same way as your typical FT'er. They aren't as likely to consider themselves as being loyal to any specific airline or hub captives etc. Their #1 purchase criteria is price. A $10 difference can be enough to make the sale.
If a DL employee has "purchased" a seat on the 2pm departure, that's one less seat to offer at that fare bucket's price. Even if they didn't take the last seat from that bucket, it is still more likely that bucket will sell out before departure. If a potential cusotmer is shopping after the bucket is sold out, then they'll see the 6pm departure $20 cheaper than the desired 2pm flight. They may purchase the 6pm, or they might go to AA.com and find (and purchase !!) a 2:15pm flight at the $20 lower fare.
DL has lost the revenue. It makes no difference if the flight ends up departing full or not.
To combine my thoughts with yours ....
When determining if there was an "opportunity cost" in providing a $0 positive space ticket for a given flight, it's irrelevant if the flight went out full or not.
What is relevant is if the specific fare class(es) that the employee ticket qualifies for, were ever sold out. In the pre-Covid world, those lower fare buckets will zero out (from sales or YM tweaking) on most flights. If those bucket(s) ever hit zero after the employee removed a seat from inventory, then it's highly likely there will be an opportunity cost for providing the pass. The fact that the passes will remain valid in a "post Covid world" means the possibility of there being an opportunity cost rises.
Again, I'm not saying there's zero opportunity cost with these. There will indeed be some on some of these tickets. However the millions and millions of dollars some are suggesting are just not realistic opportunity costs.
Nov 27, 2020, 9:55 am
#35
Join Date: Mar 2003
Programs: former MD-88 jumpseat Medallion. DL FO, AA PLT PRO. Marriott LT Plat.
Posts: 752
the value is in the eye of the user for these passes. There are over 70K+ employees and probably just as many opinions on what to do with them.
Yes they are upgradeable, on day of departure they go onto the airport standby list for J/F/W (AFTER GUCs / RUCs / medallion comp upgrades but BEFORE regular NRSA). The concurrent wisdom would be to use them on long-haul flights for maximum time in DeltaOne (cough SYD / JNB cough) should you be lucky enough to get the upgrade. But this means that the same flights that are popular with DMs burning their GUCs are popular for the pass redemption. Additionally, unless you have access to DeltaMatic, there isn't a readily available way to locate these passes on individual flights, so you can't tell where the upgraders are until they check in at the gate. I surmise CPT will be a hot ticket this year, but since the retirees all have these passes too, and the upgrades are doled out by seniority, I don't want to get halfway around the planet, and then discover at the gate that someone who was hired in the Eisenhower administration is also on the flight and going to get the last J seat, forcing me into Y for 16 hours. no, no, NO. There's a reason I have status with 2 airlines and haven't flown INTL Y in a decade, and its because I buy WFBF tickets.
5-ish years ago I burned my passes to KEF. Rationale: its only 1 flight a day (this is before we started MSP-KEF), its a mandatory connection for me each way, so I got 4 legs confirmed total, ATL-JFK for nonrevs is always a disaster, and the KEF flight is only 5 hours enroute so I didn't care if I got stuck in Y.
Last year, I tried to burn another one of these passes ATL-YVR // HNL-ATL for a 10-night cruise we had booked. Unfortunately the only routing I could get was ATL-MCI-SLC-YVR, or ATL-OKC-SLC-YVR ... a 3-hopper. At that point, the "value" of being confirmed for free with this pass was diminished by having to take 3 flights to get across the country, and having to take more time off work to start that journey earlier in the day. Ended up buying confirmed for $160 ATL-SEA-YVR which checked all of the boxes, then bought a separate one-way home on HNL-ATL nonstop for $450 or so. We both weren't getting upgraded on any of these, even with status, let alone with the passes, and at the total cost of the airfare, I probably would have burned the passes if we could have gotten nonstops both ways. So DL actually made money here, from someone who had totally free options at their disposal.
My sibling, PurdueFlyer-the-younger, is a DL Flight attendant who told me this week that she now has -8- of these passes saved up and has never used any of them. Most of her limited travel (when not working) is domestic, and last minute. Between booking the jumpseat on DL, and using other domestic carriers to "flowback" for free, there just isn't the need. She's gonna get where she is going.
Are these valuable to the employees? yes. Is there a cost to DL? Yes, but its largely mitigated by capacity controls & the fact that some people just aren't going to use them. I'm happy to have them, but they aren't exactly burning a hole in my pocket.
Hope everyone had a happy and COVID-free holiday!
Yes they are upgradeable, on day of departure they go onto the airport standby list for J/F/W (AFTER GUCs / RUCs / medallion comp upgrades but BEFORE regular NRSA). The concurrent wisdom would be to use them on long-haul flights for maximum time in DeltaOne (cough SYD / JNB cough) should you be lucky enough to get the upgrade. But this means that the same flights that are popular with DMs burning their GUCs are popular for the pass redemption. Additionally, unless you have access to DeltaMatic, there isn't a readily available way to locate these passes on individual flights, so you can't tell where the upgraders are until they check in at the gate. I surmise CPT will be a hot ticket this year, but since the retirees all have these passes too, and the upgrades are doled out by seniority, I don't want to get halfway around the planet, and then discover at the gate that someone who was hired in the Eisenhower administration is also on the flight and going to get the last J seat, forcing me into Y for 16 hours. no, no, NO. There's a reason I have status with 2 airlines and haven't flown INTL Y in a decade, and its because I buy WFBF tickets.
5-ish years ago I burned my passes to KEF. Rationale: its only 1 flight a day (this is before we started MSP-KEF), its a mandatory connection for me each way, so I got 4 legs confirmed total, ATL-JFK for nonrevs is always a disaster, and the KEF flight is only 5 hours enroute so I didn't care if I got stuck in Y.
Last year, I tried to burn another one of these passes ATL-YVR // HNL-ATL for a 10-night cruise we had booked. Unfortunately the only routing I could get was ATL-MCI-SLC-YVR, or ATL-OKC-SLC-YVR ... a 3-hopper. At that point, the "value" of being confirmed for free with this pass was diminished by having to take 3 flights to get across the country, and having to take more time off work to start that journey earlier in the day. Ended up buying confirmed for $160 ATL-SEA-YVR which checked all of the boxes, then bought a separate one-way home on HNL-ATL nonstop for $450 or so. We both weren't getting upgraded on any of these, even with status, let alone with the passes, and at the total cost of the airfare, I probably would have burned the passes if we could have gotten nonstops both ways. So DL actually made money here, from someone who had totally free options at their disposal.
My sibling, PurdueFlyer-the-younger, is a DL Flight attendant who told me this week that she now has -8- of these passes saved up and has never used any of them. Most of her limited travel (when not working) is domestic, and last minute. Between booking the jumpseat on DL, and using other domestic carriers to "flowback" for free, there just isn't the need. She's gonna get where she is going.
Are these valuable to the employees? yes. Is there a cost to DL? Yes, but its largely mitigated by capacity controls & the fact that some people just aren't going to use them. I'm happy to have them, but they aren't exactly burning a hole in my pocket.
Hope everyone had a happy and COVID-free holiday!
Nov 28, 2020, 6:19 pm
#37
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mersk862 Wow. Hope wherever you are now, you are happy. Definitely surprised you are no longer with Delta.
That, and there's been some developments over the past month that will hopefully clear up in the next week or two that will get me right back into "the game". Fingers crossed.
Last edited by mersk862; Nov 28, 2020 at 6:27 pm
Nov 29, 2020, 3:39 am
#38
Join Date: Mar 2018
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Curveballs happen in life sometimes. I definitely had a great 2019 traveling around the world, and glad I got to do it before the world shut down with COVID.
That, and there's been some developments over the past month that will hopefully clear up in the next week or two that will get me right back into "the game". Fingers crossed.
That, and there's been some developments over the past month that will hopefully clear up in the next week or two that will get me right back into "the game". Fingers crossed.