T4 at JFK (mostly DL) poor design

Old Nov 23, 2020, 12:35 pm
  #31  
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Im at T4 right now and it is such a terrible terminal.....there literally is not one concession open beyond B36 that I can see.

DL designs terrible airports.....LGA has the same issue with the new G gates and there is absolutely
nothing on that long corridor of gates.

SkyClubs are miles away it seems like
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 12:44 pm
  #32  
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Good for exercise is the only complement, I guess.

I have a flight into T4 in a few weeks. I am going to time myself how long it would take to exit terminal once; in flights from recent weeks, I would say it's taken me 10-15 minutes. Even at other terminals of JFK, and most other US airports, including international arrivals, I have only needed around 5 minutes to exit - yes I am a fast walker, and I don't check luggage.
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 12:48 pm
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Whos the DL genius that schedules the DCA & IAD flights around the same time at gates right next to each other?
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 1:18 pm
  #34  
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Originally Posted by AANYC1981
Whos the DL genius that schedules the DCA & IAD flights around the same time at gates right next to each other?
Sounds like a great idea. Not sure the issue.
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 1:52 pm
  #35  
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the issue is that some passengers can easily get confused and attempt to board the wrong flight ... I’ve seen it even more interesting when BWI, also departing within the same 10-20-min window, has been at an adjacent gate or right across the hall
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 2:14 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767
the issue is that some passengers can easily get confused and attempt to board the wrong flight ... Ive seen it even more interesting when BWI, also departing within the same 10-20-min window, has been at an adjacent gate or right across the hall
BWI should show as Baltimore. IAD/DCA I could get as both are called Washington first.

Regardless having next to each other makes easy if need to move passenger to another flight. Also means if passenger looks up wrong flight, they're at most two gates away. Same is normally done for NYC airports.
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 4:07 pm
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Originally Posted by N590UA
Are you referring to current T2 connecting to T4 or the ex-Pan Am WorldPort connecting to T4? (sorry, I forget if both buildings were known as just T2 at one point.)
I was referring to current T4 and T2. As part of the demolition of the WorldPort, there was originally going to be a connector built between T2 and T4. It's actually referenced in the original DL press release:

With construction underway, completion of phase one and relocation of Delta's Terminal 3 operations to Terminal 4 is anticipated in May 2013. Delta's JFK terminal project includes: the expansion of Concourse B at Terminal 4, including nine new international gates; the construction of a passenger connector between Terminal 2 and Terminal 4; expanded areas for baggage claim, Customs and Border Protection, and, ultimately, the demolition of Terminal 3, which will be completed for aircraft parking in May 2015.
There's a picture at Cranky Flier, though it's not the original PANYNJ rendering that I can't seem to find anywhere.

IIRC, T2 and T3 were already connected with moving walkways before they demolished it. They were old, but definitely efficient. Couldn't DL just have kept T3 around and just built a walkway from the edge of the old Pan Am Terminal to T4? Or was that what you were referring to above?
Yeah, I was proposing some variation on that. Looking at the picture, I don't think they gained any material hard stand space by not building the connector, so it was almost certainly a cost thing. Though it doesn't look like the previous T2-T3 connector could have been repurposed in its entirety, since it turns towards old-T3 in the wrong direction for T4.

Originally Posted by bgriff
And T3 had some separation between some gates, I guess is one nice thing you could say about it (though not universally the front section, the original WorldPort, had 6 or so gates in an open area similar to T2). IIRC the club lounge situation was 3 separate lounges (which had once been a Crown Room Club, a Business Class lounge, and a First Class lounge when Delta had those 3 different products), which I guess were fine enough by the standards of Delta lounges at the time, but it was a complicated setup each of the lounges kept different hours and I remember frequently having to go to the next one for early and late departures.
Yeah, the gate separation was about the only nice thing about T3. I did like the lounge that you had to take the elevator up to since it had pretty good views. I mostly avoided the other T3 lounges.

Originally Posted by jrl767
the issue is that some passengers can easily get confused and attempt to board the wrong flight ... Ive seen it even more interesting when BWI, also departing within the same 10-20-min window, has been at an adjacent gate or right across the hall
The GAs should be aware of this proximity and pay attention to the scanner rejecting boarding passes for the wrong flight.
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 4:27 pm
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Originally Posted by bennos
I was referring to current T4 and T2. As part of the demolition of the WorldPort, there was originally going to be a connector built between T2 and T4. It's actually referenced in the original DL press release:

There's a picture at Cranky Flier, though it's not the original PANYNJ rendering that I can't seem to find anywhere.

Yeah, I was proposing some variation on that. Looking at the picture, I don't think they gained any material hard stand space by not building the connector, so it was almost certainly a cost thing. Though it doesn't look like the previous T2-T3 connector could have been repurposed in its entirety, since it turns towards old-T3 in the wrong direction for T4.
I would guess the T2-T4 walkway got scrapped because it would have been a pretty long hike for passengers, especially if going between T2 and the high B gates, and perhaps Delta realized that a bus service like the current B54-T2 bus would be needed for such connections anyway, so might as well offer the whole thing as a bus service. And/or it was too complicated to build the walkway while the T3 demolition was happening, but T3 has been gone for years now so there would have been plenty of time to get use out of a walkway even if it was only built after the T3 demolition was complete.

The old T2-T3 walkway was fun, though. Its moving sidewalks were of some weird, presumably old design with a bouncy, rubbery surface unlike any other moving sidewalks I've come across. IIRC that passageway was 2 "normal length" moving sidewalks, and then to judge from Cranky's pictures, that was only maybe 20% of the total distance between T2 and T4, so it would have been a very long connecting walkway if it had been built.
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 5:30 pm
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Originally Posted by nrr
I've flown out of nearly 30 airports in nearly 60 years of flying and the triple helix ramp design seems to be unique for T4, its not bad departing (downhill) but harder (as I get older) arriving (uphill).
Why would they design ramps like that?
Add in the "monster" size terminal, with moving "walkways" rarely 100% operational...make T4 a fun terminal to use.
Yeah, was there last week. Hate the triple helix for arrivals. Getting a bit old and out of shape to handle thos long, long walks to the exit as well. It's long enough to land a plane on the roof of T4. LOL
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 5:31 pm
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Originally Posted by cmd320
The one nice thing about DL being in T4 now is the new Centurion Lounge.
Where is this lounge located?
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 6:01 pm
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Originally Posted by ND76
Where is this lounge located?
Near Etihad on the 4th floor - thru security, head in the direction of the A gates (but don't go downstairs)
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 7:07 pm
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As SFTNYC says, its right next door to Etihad. After going through TSA its on that same level in the direction of the A gates.
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 7:35 pm
  #43  
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Originally Posted by Repooc17
Good for exercise is the only complement, I guess.

I have a flight into T4 in a few weeks. I am going to time myself how long it would take to exit terminal once; in flights from recent weeks, I would say it's taken me 10-15 minutes. Even at other terminals of JFK, and most other US airports, including international arrivals, I have only needed around 5 minutes to exit - yes I am a fast walker, and I don't check luggage.
JFK T8 AA if you arrive at, say, gate 47 the walk to CBP rivals T4--I don't see how 5 min. is possible.
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 7:39 pm
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Originally Posted by nrr
JFK T8 AA if you arrive at, say, gate 47 the walk to CBP rivals T4--I don't see how 5 min. is possible.
Haha, it can be done, but be prepared to be seeing stars by the time youre boarding your connection. My record was 23 minutes. Seat 8A on a 77W to seat 4G on a 763 I->D. Thank God for Global Entry, carryon only, and Precheck otherwise that transfer would not have been possible.
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Old Nov 23, 2020, 7:40 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by ND76
Where is this lounge located?
Another description: when you exit TSA checkpoint, make a left turn and walk to the end of that floor.
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