FlyingFreeYupie

1)contact KL when you contacted them regarding schedule change [one week before]. Day of travel, I reached out to Delta, who still couldn't see any issues with my ticket unless they called KLM.

Delta now claims this was a Chase Travel issue. Expedia/Chase Travel aren't helpful on the phone for anything and will likely give me the run around.

flyerCO

This would've been important info to begin with. As you booked with Chase Travel everythin should've been done through them. This is why everything is messed up and it took so long to fix. Neither KLM, nor DL issued your ticket, Chase Travel/Expedia did, albeit on DL ticket stock (006).

When you book via an OTA/TA all changes except DoD IRROPS must be handled with that OTA/TA. Neither DL or KLM should've touched ticket or reservation and both should've referred you to Chase/Expedia. This also explains the comment (although still technically incorrect) by DL about KL taking control. A ticket issued by a OTA/TA can be taken over by the airline whose stock it is issued on. Once this happens the OTA/TA no longer has control and can't make any changes. The DL agent likely saw KLM had put in alternative flights in reservation and incorrectly assumed they had taken control of ticket.

Instead what should've happened is that Chase/Expedia system saw the schedule change and alternative flights KLM system had automatically put in reservation and reissued a ticket for those. If those weren't what you wanted, you needed to contact Chase/Expedia, who could change the flights and reissue ticket.

This also explains why it took so long to reissue, they had to contact Chase/Expedia to rebook you.

Kacee

Indeed. It certainly complicates everything.

FlyingFreeYupie

As per Chase Travel, Delta took over the ticket on Oct 21st [They do not know why, but think it could have been because of the multiple involuntary schedule changes]. And again, when I called Delta, no changes were actually done, I checked alternative flights/routes with Delta directly, but never made any actual changes to what was already in existence. Same thing happened when I called KLM, they still checked alternatives but referred me back to Delta. At that time, the ticket did exist on KLM's side and showed as CONFIRMED.

Chase Travel now claims they are investigating what happened and will provide a response by tomorrow.

flyerCO

I'm thinking the CONFIRMED was the flights in your reservation. Those were confirmed, but the ticket didn't match those flights. The ticket still was for old flights. E- Tickets have caused it to look like the ticket/reservation are the same thing., they're totally separate things.

RealHJ

Precisely! That is the key lesson for everyone to take from this (and countless other similar incidents, at all major airlines, not just DL). The reservation, that one pulls up with the PNR (passenger name record) - typically six alphanumeric characters (only 5 with some airlines, and sometimes only digits, esp. for Japan and Korea wholly domestic flights) - is what puts you on the passenger list for a flight, but it does not indicate that you can actually check-in, board and fly. You also need a ticket, that matches the reservation and has the same flights on it. A ticket (13-digits, with first 3 digits being the ticketing airline code) is the instrument that indicates that the airline has collected the fare and that the passenger has paid for their flight. Having one but not the other means no go.

Mismatches between PNR/reservation and ticket are not uncommon. Most frequent is when the flights are changed by a reservations agent (or passenger themselves, if so possible), and thus the passenger is no longer on the original flight(s) and is now holding a confirmed seat (be it assigned or no) on new flight(s), but not reticketed - meaning that the revenue portion of it hasn't been taken care of, be it collecting extra $$, refunding $$, charging ticket change fee(s), or - what DL has a lot of trouble with historically and which can literally take hours on the phone with DL - simply doing it as an even exchange and not charging passenger anything extra, just issuing a new ticket to match the new flights on the reservation. But, the reverse can also happen. One can be ticketed, so the flights are paid for and set, yet the operating airline can have no, or inaccurate or incomplete, PNR reservation for the passenger, without (some or all) of the flights. That way, the passenger does not appear on the flight manifest, it being ticketed and paid notwithstanding, and likewise cannot check-in or fly (and in fact may have no room on the flight; this is the harder discrepancy to fix just before flight, esp. if the flight is full).

It is important to always check both the reservation and the ticket/receipt at the operating airline, and the reservation, and ensure that they match (never just look at one and presume that the other one is fine and matching), and that it has a reference to the correct (and not some earlier no longer valid, or blank) ticket number, at each one of the operating airlines under their respective PNRs (which DL, unlike many other airlines, never discloses to you anywhere, so you always have to ask for each operating airline PNR...though the DL one can be used with KL/AF/VS).

GagaPilot

Excellent explanation!

The only thing I would add is to be cautious when an agent says a ticket does not need to be re-issued... and it will simply be "re-validated" instead.

My experience has found this to be mostly acceptable for domestic travel (only one hiccup that I can recall in the past several years). But for international I always insist on a re-issue. Even if it means to HUCA.

The re-validation basically is where the system interprets the new flights to be a suitable replacement for the original flights. (Perhaps the flight number changed, but the routing is the same. OR there is a slight time difference on the original flights). Whenever a connection point, origin, destination, date, large time change, or operating carrier is changed I firmly believe a ticket needs to be re-issued to prevent problems on the day of travel.

RealHJ

Yes, always get ticket reissued - a must, unless it's a domestic ticketing airline only flight (where yes, say in case of an elite upgrade the ticket doesn't need to be reissued). Whenever any airline other than the ticketing one involved, the ticket and PNR must match exactly.

MSPeconomist

My impression is that DL tends to reissue tickets for a SDC but not SDS and not when there's a same day IROPs rebooking onto obvious alternative flights. YMMV.

If a partner airline is involved in any way, even just on an unaffected portion of the ticket or PNR, the ticket should be reissued and checked carefully.

lucycan

All part of the "seamless flying experience" with Delta and its partners, specifically KLM and AF. I've had countless issues like this over the past decade while doing exactly what you were trying - buying thru Delta on KL/AF metal.

Denied boarding, seats given away at check in, etc

Wish I could share a simple answer for you.

RealHJ

Definitely, though often other airlines, esp. KL and AF, only even see the last other (to them) airline flight, so if that has not changed and only something earlier, the same ticket should be likely fine.

I mean if you fly AAA-BBB-CCC on DL and then CCC-DDD on, say, KL, then KL will only see BBB-CCC DL and CCC-DDD KL flights. They won't even show AAA-BBB DL flight. So if that is all that has changed but the connecting-to-them DL flight BBB-CCC remains unchanged, theoretically then it should be fine without a ticket reissue, if it's not a problem on DL. Theoretically being the key word, of course, and always better to have ticket properly reissued - better be safe than sorry.

FlyingFreeYupie

Your explanations make sense. However, as a passenger, I did my due diligence to confirm my flights with both Chase Travel/Expedia, Delta and KLM. I had 2 PNRs (Delta and PNR) although the Delta one managed to get the reservation on KLM's side.

I was always told that my reservation was confirmed by everyone involved. Who is to blame for what happened then? Both Delta & Chase Travel/Expedia couldn't see anything wrong with my ticket when I got denied check-in. It took me asking Delta to reach out to KLM for an explanation for them to re-route me (Delta even added that KLM could have fixed this is time from their end). Chase Travel/Expedia was completely clueless on helping me here, they called Delta who stated they couldn't see any issues, so I gave up on them to try to get a re-route.

nerdbirdsjc

All true, but what I'm saying is that on day on departure the problem was essentially AFKL's to fix one way or another. Ideally, by AFKL agents who also have Deltamatic access and could thus see and resolve the discrepancy between the DL ticket and itinerary in the AFKL res system. Delta's European reservations offices are staffed with AFKL agents with precisely that kind of access to both sides of the house. By contrast, only some res supervisors in Delta's North American call centers have retained access to AFKL's Oscar system...so most DL agents wouldn't understand the problem, and couldn't fix on the spot anyways.

Often1

Nonetheless, this was a TA ticket issued on the stock of another carrier. Not saying that KL could not have done more, but it did the minimum, e.g., look and determine that the passenger lacked a proper ticket to support the reservation.

flyerCO

One thing I would post as a takeaway from this, do not use an OTA/TA unless you absolutely must. It just adds one more complication when something goes wrong and is one more point for something to go wrong.