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Delta does not want to issue KL-coded flights?

Delta does not want to issue KL-coded flights?

Old Sep 12, 20, 8:38 pm
  #16  
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Originally Posted by TrojanTraveler View Post
There’s also the possibility that the agent was misinformed. Especially the comment that “The ticket stock needs to match the marketing carrier”, which is not correct.
It should match the match carrier for the first overwater sector. It doesn't have to, but under general convention it should
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Old Sep 12, 20, 8:41 pm
  #17  
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Originally Posted by smartytravel View Post
That's interesting! So the reason I had to talk to Delta, because I received a cancellation email on my KL-coded flights on 006 stock. Obviously, I cannot extrapolate, but whenever I book KL-marketed flights on 006-stock, everything always works perfectly. I get notifications (not from Delta, but KLM), and agents are able to work things out fairly easily.

That's why I was surprised about what the agent was telling me.
Even though on 006 stock, as KL coded, the flights reservations statuses (CONFIRMED/CANCELLED/ WAITLIST/etc) are managed by KL, even if partner operated. See my post earlier. In fact the operating carrier could cancel their flight, but you'll still show as confirmed on the KL coded.
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Old Mar 8, 22, 1:31 pm
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This may be answered somewhere else, but I couldn't find it, so I thought I'd bump this old thread.

I have a partially flown multi-city DL ticket (006 stock) where many of the remaining long-haul segments are KL-operated, DL-coded. When the ticket was originally issued, there was no option to ticket those flights as KL-coded, at least so I was told at that time. Now with multiple schedule changes after flying the first leg, each time when I called in to update the itinerary with the rescheduled flights to avoid misconnects, I asked if I could be rebooked on the KL codes but was told each time that this wasn't possible "because it's a DL ticket" and I was just rebooked on the DL codes. Given that for new tickets it's clearly possible (if not exactly easy) to have KL-coded segments on DL stock, is this a situation where calling in repeatedly might help? If so, are there any specific things I could reference / ask for to increase my chances of success? For what it's worth, this is a full flex J ticket for which the original fare rules allow unlimited free changes after flying the first leg, so there shouldn't be any problem from that perspective.
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Old Mar 8, 22, 1:48 pm
  #19  
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Is there a specific reason you want the KL-marketed flight? In general, it will be much more difficult to get an agent to do this than any issue I can think of off the top of my head with flying a codeshare.

Standard policy is to use DL flight numbers whenever possible if DL is issuing the ticket, although of course there is no technical requirement.
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Old Mar 8, 22, 2:04 pm
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Originally Posted by findark View Post
Is there a specific reason you want the KL-marketed flight?
Thanks for your response. The reason for preferring the KL-marketed flights would be the higher MQD earnings.
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Old Mar 8, 22, 2:18 pm
  #21  
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Without a better (made-up if needed) excuse, I think that's a hard sell for an agent who otherwise has no reason to mess around. Is it really that significant? I assume something weird is going on (residuals maybe) if you want to earn by distance in full J.
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Old Mar 8, 22, 2:44 pm
  #22  
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Originally Posted by hogo74 View Post
This may be answered somewhere else, but I couldn't find it, so I thought I'd bump this old thread.

I have a partially flown multi-city DL ticket (006 stock) where many of the remaining long-haul segments are KL-operated, DL-coded. When the ticket was originally issued, there was no option to ticket those flights as KL-coded, at least so I was told at that time. Now with multiple schedule changes after flying the first leg, each time when I called in to update the itinerary with the rescheduled flights to avoid misconnects, I asked if I could be rebooked on the KL codes but was told each time that this wasn't possible "because it's a DL ticket" and I was just rebooked on the DL codes. Given that for new tickets it's clearly possible (if not exactly easy) to have KL-coded segments on DL stock, is this a situation where calling in repeatedly might help? If so, are there any specific things I could reference / ask for to increase my chances of success? For what it's worth, this is a full flex J ticket for which the original fare rules allow unlimited free changes after flying the first leg, so there shouldn't be any problem from that perspective.
I found that it's typically easier to just buy directly from KLM. They also have a generous policy with complete refunds for flights through June 30.

If you need 006 stock, I would try a chat option on Delta.com. They were typically able to book KL coded flights for me. You may want to try several times.
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Old Mar 8, 22, 2:46 pm
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Originally Posted by findark View Post
Without a better (made-up if needed) excuse, I think that's a hard sell for an agent who otherwise has no reason to mess around.
Thanks for the feedback, this confirms my experiences so far. There probably will be more schedule changes before I travel so I'll try again then - not holding my breath, but at least a bit better than just calling in and asking to change the codes without any other reasons to touch the reservation.

Originally Posted by findark View Post
Is it really that significant? I assume something weird is going on (residuals maybe) if you want to earn by distance in full J.
Yes, it would be a fairly significant difference, but nothing weird, just a very good price on the original ticket.
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Old Mar 10, 22, 9:30 am
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Originally Posted by hogo74 View Post
This may be answered somewhere else, but I couldn't find it, so I thought I'd bump this old thread.

I have a partially flown multi-city DL ticket (006 stock) where many of the remaining long-haul segments are KL-operated, DL-coded. When the ticket was originally issued, there was no option to ticket those flights as KL-coded, at least so I was told at that time. Now with multiple schedule changes after flying the first leg, each time when I called in to update the itinerary with the rescheduled flights to avoid misconnects, I asked if I could be rebooked on the KL codes but was told each time that this wasn't possible "because it's a DL ticket" and I was just rebooked on the DL codes. Given that for new tickets it's clearly possible (if not exactly easy) to have KL-coded segments on DL stock, is this a situation where calling in repeatedly might help? If so, are there any specific things I could reference / ask for to increase my chances of success? For what it's worth, this is a full flex J ticket for which the original fare rules allow unlimited free changes after flying the first leg, so there shouldn't be any problem from that perspective.

Call Delta Reservations in Europe (the France or UK lines tend to pick up the phone faster). AFKL agents staff those phone lines, and they'll happily rebook under AF and KL codes (you'll also end up with a 074 or 057 ticket).
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Old Mar 10, 22, 11:34 am
  #25  
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Originally Posted by nerdbirdsjc View Post
Call Delta Reservations in Europe (the France or UK lines tend to pick up the phone faster). AFKL agents staff those phone lines, and they'll happily rebook under AF and KL codes (you'll also end up with a 074 or 057 ticket).
I was under the impression that DL switched back to using its own reservations agents in Europe at the same time that AF/KL started using their own in North America.

Its tougher after travel starts since you are constrained to the fare that you bought, which is likely a Delta fare that requires DL-coded overwater flights. So the agents may be half correct that they can’t switch the flights to KL and have it price under the same fare, but wrong that it’s the ticket stock specifically that matters.

Ticketing is… complicated, especially when you get into JVs where the airlines themselves are willing to do things that they don’t allow travel agents to do (e.g. issue a 006 ticket with no DL-marketed coupons).
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Old Mar 10, 22, 11:57 am
  #26  
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DL/AF/KLgo by simple policy. Once issued any reissues go by the code originally booked as. I. E. I

f you book with DL, but get AF/KL coded flights, then they'll rebook on those. However if you booked with DL and booked DL coded flights, DL will always rebook with DL coded flights unless not possible.
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Old Mar 11, 22, 1:53 am
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
DL/AF/KLgo by simple policy. Once issued any reissues go by the code originally booked as. I. E. I

f you book with DL, but get AF/KL coded flights, then they'll rebook on those. However if you booked with DL and booked DL coded flights, DL will always rebook with DL coded flights unless not possible.
I've had multiple agents on the reissues and AF/KL JV support desk tell me the last few years that the policy is that during schedule changes and irops, they are supposted to book new flight using Operating carrier code due to JV rules. I've heard it enough times that regardless if this is correct or not, its not something they are just making up, someone has told them that.

This generally happens to me when I tried hard to issue original ticket on AF/KL marketing carrier code and then during rebook, DL wants to change it to DL flight number. Most of the time if I push them and say "honestly, I booked it this way because the earning is better". 8 times out of 10 they begrudgingly agree to do it. So I guess it all depends who you talk to about the policy.

Also, regarding the IATA rule, its technically not overwater, its first international segment. So if you are flying LGA-YYZ-CDG and LGA-YYZ is on delta and the rest is on AF, that meets the standard. Also...for the first time this week I had an issue where DL.com would price a fully AF flight number itinerary but would fail when I when to complete the purchase. I fought with it for a few hours before getting it to work. It was a case of US-CAN-NL. I was able to use all KL flight numbers but I had to route through Canada so that the 1st segment was operated by DL (even though ticket used KL flight number). Then the ticket issued. I could have flown US-NL on delta operated/KL flight number, but I didn't want to. It was an interesting hiccup.
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Old Mar 11, 22, 7:14 am
  #28  
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Originally Posted by Utskicat View Post
I've had multiple agents on the reissues and AF/KL JV support desk tell me the last few years that the policy is that during schedule changes and irops, they are supposted to book new flight using Operating carrier code due to JV rules. I've heard it enough times that regardless if this is correct or not, its not something they are just making up, someone has told them that.

This generally happens to me when I tried hard to issue original ticket on AF/KL marketing carrier code and then during rebook, DL wants to change it to DL flight number. Most of the time if I push them and say "honestly, I booked it this way because the earning is better". 8 times out of 10 they begrudgingly agree to do it. So I guess it all depends who you talk to about the policy.

Also, regarding the IATA rule, its technically not overwater, its first international segment. So if you are flying LGA-YYZ-CDG and LGA-YYZ is on delta and the rest is on AF, that meets the standard. Also...for the first time this week I had an issue where DL.com would price a fully AF flight number itinerary but would fail when I when to complete the purchase. I fought with it for a few hours before getting it to work. It was a case of US-CAN-NL. I was able to use all KL flight numbers but I had to route through Canada so that the 1st segment was operated by DL (even though ticket used KL flight number). Then the ticket issued. I could have flown US-NL on delta operated/KL flight number, but I didn't want to. It was an interesting hiccup.
JV means everything is revenue neutral. Thus I don't see why the JV would say this. Only time I've been told this is true, when you've booked awards or have upgraded the flight. Upgraded flights (regardless of miles or Certificate) need be book as the operating carrier.

However otherwise, ive had many agents,, supervisors, and Global support agents refuse to change marketing carrier. If I call in and they're KL coded, they keep KL codes, if DL they keep DL.
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Old Mar 11, 22, 8:53 am
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Originally Posted by VFR View Post
I was under the impression that DL switched back to using its own reservations agents in Europe at the same time that AF/KL started using their own in North America.

Nope, Delta still uses AFKL agents for its call centers in the UK and continental Europe, so it's still a "best of both worlds" situation working through those offices.
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Old Mar 11, 22, 9:55 am
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
JV means everything is revenue neutral. Thus I don't see why the JV would say this. Only time I've been told this is true, when you've booked awards or have upgraded the flight. Upgraded flights (regardless of miles or Certificate) need be book as the operating carrier.

However otherwise, ive had many agents,, supervisors, and Global support agents refuse to change marketing carrier. If I call in and they're KL coded, they keep KL codes, if DL they keep DL.
As I think someone else mentioned, the proportion of marketing codes influences the revenue split slightly. It makes sense because if KL serviced 100 tickets and DL serviced 5, KL incurred more of a cost.
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