synzero

Of course, I agree of course that businesses can and should be regulated by law. I simply think using the phrase "extrajudicial punishment" is hyperbole. It doesn't seem to me that what Delta is doing here even really comes anywhere near something that I think would bump up against any reasonable regulatory regime one might imagine. They have a duty of care not only to their passengers and crew, but they have a fiduciary duty to their shareholders to maximize revenue and if in their judgement doing this, which is clearly within their rights as a private business not engaging in any impermissible discrimination, to do what they believe will benefit them in the market, that's up to them to decide. I personally, for instance, would not fly any airline that did not enforce mask wearing on board strictly -- the fact that Delta does this gives me far MORE reason to want to fly them both now and in the future (should I be flying, which I am not at the moment, except within the country where I am living for the moment, which has the virus under control). I suspect many other people feel similarly. But it's not up to the courts to decide for Delta what is and isn't a reasonable policy to encourage people to fly, or whether their policy is or isn't discouraging more fliers than it is encouraging. That's left, properly, up to their management to decide, and as long as they're not veering into territory covered by the regulatory and civil rights legal framework in our country I don't see any issue whatsoever, really. I applaud them, in fact -- because they're doing this I certainly intend to fly Delta as much as possible in the long future after this damn pandemic is over.

Often1

DL markets itself to the community of potential flyers as having certain policies in place, e.g., passengers are masked. One can reasonably expect that.

Don't think for a second that this is all about DL (or any carrier's) concern for safety alone. It is about attracting customers back to flying. The public wants this and the infintesimal minority who don't are free to fly Zoom or Teams.

estedman

I wish these people would get on a Gov no travel list, no planes, trains, buses. They should pay for their total disregard of others peoples lives.

mosfet

Polling shows overwhelming support for wearing masks outside of the house (92%). While anti maskers do a good job at making a lot of noise they are a minority. Delta probably sees banning 450+ people as good PR and the loud, anti-mask crowd as small collateral damage.

I really feel for the crew who have to deal with people that won't cooperate. I can't envision an instance in which someone isn't aware of the mask requirement and makes it onto the plane. Furthermore, these people who go viral kicking and screaming are obviously dealing with anger management, stress, anxiety, etc and I do feel for them also. Again though, the poor crew who in my mind are already doing an admirable job.

One day this shall pass and normality will return. Until then I'm in full support of DL and other airlines being very transparent that the rules to apply to everyone and the consequences are real.

cmd320

Whilst I'm not one of them, I strongly question that data. Is that some kind of highly regional/specific study?

In my area, I would say at this point I only see maybe 25% of people wearing a mask when entering a restaurant or bar. Grocery stores are closer to 50% (despite policy mandating them).

No_Name

I agree with you and I like Delta's approach so far and I have been supportive of it--to include on this forum.

While public corporations have a fiduciary responsibility, there are limits to that goal. Not just statutory and regulatory limits, but also the "let's avoid provoking new regulations." There is a Russian saying made popular by Reagan "Doveryay, no proveryay" (Trust, but verify). If Delta and other airlines are going to wield the ban hammer, I think outside independent scrutiny is warranted.

Zeeb

This is a very important point - a big reason for this policy is that a lot of customers are only willing to purchase tickets and fly if they feel that a real effort is being made for things to be as safe as possible, and mask wearing is a key thing that is looked for. If Delta doesn't aggressively enforce this policy they will absolutely lose customers to airlines that do, and Delta clearly feels that is a larger number than the customers they might lose by being lax about it.

And like I said upthread, 460 flyers over the course of multiple months means that it is happening on only a few flights a day on average, out of thousands of flights. 460 is an overwhelmingly small number of people compared to the number of people that are doing just fine with these rules.

DonnaDickens

I totally agree with "trust, but verify' thing, as in the contemporary world we need to be safe and the more danger factors are excluded, the safer people can feel themselves

mosfet

And let's be honest, polls reliability has taken a hit in the last 5 years! The poll is here and yeah, small sample for sure.

I suppose a point is Delta may look at polls as justification regardless of real-world indications like you've highlighted above. A headline about X amount of COVID cases from a Delta/AA/UA could be a nail in the coffin. Considering we haven't seen such a headline suggests masks are the sensible move for the foreseeable future.

Often1

Booting the 460 and being public about the numbers will likely cause some of the ever-so-important folks to privately grumble but comply. That's all I care about.

readywhenyouare

I don't believe that for a minute. 92%? You need to provide a source. I certainly don't see any of my neighbors wearing a mask when they go to get their mail, going for a run, washing their car etc.

Chris2013

That's completely asinine and unrealistic let alone unconstitutional. If you're so scared of getting the virus, stay home. We all have freedom to make choices about what we feel is best for ourselves and our family, it goes beyond the government's scope to mandate mask-wearing and if you give them an inch, they'll take a mile. Now Delta can, as a private sector enterprise, make and enforce a different standard but how much do you want to bet that when this corona-mania is over with that those "banned fliers" will magically be welcomed back to the Delta family with open arms? No reasonable business is going to turn away $$ once the PR wears off and their shareholders are clamoring for returning to profitability (or at least not burning through millions and millions of dollars).

Zeeb

You're intentionally posting in bad faith there. You know that isn't what was meant by people going out of the house so you are trying to derail the conversation by being needlessly pedantic.

readywhenyouare

If you are going to post something specific like a %, then you need to provide a source. Why should I take their word for it? And 92% is a ridiculously high number and I don't think I've ever seen a % that high in a poll of any kind.

TravelingZoomer

https://www.nationalgeographic.com/h...-mask-wearing/

Unless National Geographic is fake news. This isn’t a particular new finding either. Your plural of anecdote is not data