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Comparing SkyTeam TATL business experience: DL. KL, AF, VS?

Comparing SkyTeam TATL business experience: DL. KL, AF, VS?

Old Aug 16, 20, 8:44 am
  #1  
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Comparing SkyTeam TATL business experience: DL. KL, AF, VS?

Please note this is posted as a largely practical question, although all opinions are welcome. For purposes of the question, I consider VS essentially a SkyTeam partner, though it is fair to point out ways in which they are not insomuch as that would affect the flyer.

In coming days, I have the option of routing from Europe either via a direct or connecting on DL metal, or via connections to AF, KL, or VS metal. (I've previously experienced KL and AF business service many times; there are a few options there).

Dependent on time of day, we're likely to treat it as a work day (using the seats as an office), or attempt to sleep the crossing.

Generally I've found the AF hard product to be somewhat cramped, and the guy who'll be tagging along with me comments that he generally hits the side of the foot well and wakes up. I'm fine with the KL product I've experienced but he says he has the same problem there. Comparisons to DL or VS appreciated.

Does DL have suites D1 etc on any TATL (Europe to US east/central)? I looked but did not see any, may have missed.

Anything else I should consider when choosing between carriers? Ultimate MQM accrual is always somewhat a consideration; if anyone has an arrival shower available heading US-bound, it would be useful to know.

TIA as always.
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Old Aug 16, 20, 9:55 am
  #2  
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What route(s)? That helps to determine if there are showers upon arrival.

Do you want to sit side by side and be able to talk to each other during the flight?
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Old Aug 16, 20, 10:14 am
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Originally Posted by kthomas View Post
....
What route and aircraft types are options? Its somewhat difficult to generically say X is better than Y because each airline has different set-ups and configurations on different aircraft within their fleet. If my choice was between a DL A330 or an AF A330, Id go with DL most likely. If the choice is between a DL 767-300 and an AF 777 with the newest J seats, Id opt for AF.

Another factor is your final destination and how long you may in Euro-Business in a connecting flight or even on a US domestic F flight. I.e while domestic F is fine, I wouldnt necessarily be excited about coming off a TATL flight and then having a a 5.5 hour flight to the West Coast, especially now with minimal service/amenities in domestic F.
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Old Aug 16, 20, 1:21 pm
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Originally Posted by kthomas View Post
Does DL have suites D1 etc on any TATL (Europe to US east/central)? I looked but did not see any
There are currently 4 TATL flights with the D1 Suites on the A350-900 from Europe:

DL135 AMS-DTW
DL073 AMS-ATL
DL083 CDG-ATL
DL097 CDG-DTW
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Old Aug 16, 20, 2:24 pm
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The VS seat on the 787 is much worse than the other products you're considering, plus VS is in serious financial trouble, so I'd avoid booking them if possible.

If your companion has concerns about the footwell, my recommendation would be to book one of the four Delta One Suites flights ClipperDelta highlighted, and sit in Row 1 - the footwell is significantly larger than in the other seats, and while the increased galley noise can be a consideration for some, it can be outweighed by the additional comfort for tall folks.
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Old Aug 16, 20, 2:34 pm
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Originally Posted by ClipperDelta View Post
There are currently 4 TATL flights with the D1 Suites on the A350-900 from Europe:

DL135 AMS-DTW
DL073 AMS-ATL
DL083 CDG-ATL
DL097 CDG-DTW
This is the best possible SkyTeam TATL business class hard product. I'd go with this if you're looking to do work, especially since DL's Wifi is generally more reliable (and if we're comparing to KLM, actually exists).
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Old Aug 16, 20, 4:42 pm
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Thanks to all. Those D1 suites were not obvious to me on ITA-- they are with the new "Suite" icon in the list on Delta.com-- and thus I'll be booking into one of them.

To clarify WRT:

Originally Posted by ATOBTTR View Post
What route and aircraft types are options? Its somewhat difficult to generically say X is better than Y because each airline has different set-ups and configurations on different aircraft within their fleet. If my choice was between a DL A330 or an AF A330, Id go with DL most likely. If the choice is between a DL 767-300 and an AF 777 with the newest J seats, Id opt for AF.
Understood. On this one, it looked like we had a pretty large spread of options, especially if we wanted to head to 3-leg trips via, for instance, Rome. It looks like we can book suites on DL metal with two legs.

Another factor is your final destination and how long you may in Euro-Business in a connecting flight or even on a US domestic F flight. I.e while domestic F is fine, I wouldnt necessarily be excited about coming off a TATL flight and then having a a 5.5 hour flight to the West Coast, especially now with minimal service/amenities in domestic F.
In this case, heading to DTW or ATL requires 1-2 hours longer than NYC or BOS, for example, FWIW. No coffee, not even hot water to add to my stash of instant, in domestic F for three hours ... ugh.

My thanks again. And yes, KL, only for sleep flights not work.
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Old Aug 16, 20, 4:47 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
What route(s)? That helps to determine if there are showers upon arrival.

Do you want to sit side by side and be able to talk to each other during the flight?
We could have arrived first into into BOS, JFK, ATL, DTW ... EWR, at least. (Just looking over the current search on ITA).

Equally, also FWIW, generally, I opt for a little more distance: on AM's 789's, for instance, I like 8A and 8J, right in front of the bar, I can get to the other person and vice-versa quickly if needed, the coffee machine is close, there's room to chat at the bar, but unnecessary chatter is minimized.
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Old Aug 16, 20, 5:06 pm
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Originally Posted by kthomas View Post
We could have arrived first into into BOS, JFK, ATL, DTW ... EWR, at least. (Just looking over the current search on ITA).

Equally, also FWIW, generally, I opt for a little more distance: on AM's 789's, for instance, I like 8A and 8J, right in front of the bar, I can get to the other person and vice-versa quickly if needed, the coffee machine is close, there's room to chat at the bar, but unnecessary chatter is minimized.
8AJ on the AM 789 are great seats. The only downside is also one of the upsides you mentioned - the espresso maker is close, and the mechanical noises from it aren't necessary conducive to sleep. Still, the privacy is unparalleled, and I'd choose them again. (A suffers a little less from the noise problem.

For a similar effect on Delta, I'd probably pick the two window seats in the front row - you get the extra footwell space, and both of you get air vents (which aren't available in the center seats on the 350, I believe due to crew rest being overhead). Nowhere really convenient to congregate onboard to chat, but that's what free messaging is for
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Old Aug 16, 20, 7:01 pm
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Originally Posted by BenA View Post
For a similar effect on Delta, I'd probably pick the two window seats in the front row - you get the extra footwell space, and both of you get air vents (which aren't available in the center seats on the 350, I believe due to crew rest being overhead). Nowhere really convenient to congregate onboard to chat, but that's what free messaging is for
That's 2A and 2D on the A359s? Sadly, there appears to be no 1A ...

Heading to book the first available routing for both dates that have both seats available.

Free messaging? I bring a bit of gear... never cheap enough to proxy off Google's DNS servers, (useful to have that option ready if things don't work via the official route, though!), but we're all going to be connecting into my gateway and chatting, yes.

(Though: if anyone out there has tips/pointers/useful advice/anything! on stabilizing trading API calls over inflight WiFi, I'd be all ears, else I'll continue to tend to the weekends for long-haul).

Last edited by kthomas; Aug 16, 20 at 7:33 pm
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Old Aug 17, 20, 12:30 am
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Originally Posted by kthomas View Post
That's 2A and 2D on the A359s? Sadly, there appears to be no 1A ...

Heading to book the first available routing for both dates that have both seats available.

Free messaging? I bring a bit of gear... never cheap enough to proxy off Google's DNS servers, (useful to have that option ready if things don't work via the official route, though!), but we're all going to be connecting into my gateway and chatting, yes.

(Though: if anyone out there has tips/pointers/useful advice/anything! on stabilizing trading API calls over inflight WiFi, I'd be all ears, else I'll continue to tend to the weekends for long-haul).
I'd go with the odd numbers (3A-D,5,7, etc) on the DL 359, due to the fact that your seat is right next to the window, instead of closer to the aisle. More privacy, better view outside (if you're into that) and you won't be woken up by people walking through the aisle.
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Old Aug 17, 20, 12:08 pm
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Originally Posted by kthomas View Post
That's 2A and 2D on the A359s? Sadly, there appears to be no 1A ...

Heading to book the first available routing for both dates that have both seats available.

Free messaging? I bring a bit of gear... never cheap enough to proxy off Google's DNS servers, (useful to have that option ready if things don't work via the official route, though!), but we're all going to be connecting into my gateway and chatting, yes.

(Though: if anyone out there has tips/pointers/useful advice/anything! on stabilizing trading API calls over inflight WiFi, I'd be all ears, else I'll continue to tend to the weekends for long-haul).
No crazy DNS proxy required - Delta now offers free access to common messaging services (Facebook Messenger, iMessage, etc.) to all passengers using a phone device. Its pretty convenient for critiquing the catering while a friend is seated on the opposite side of the plane.

Inflight WiFi is definitely not suitable for day trading - there are frequent outages when flying internationally when you fly over a coverage gap and speeds are wildly variable. Maybe someday!
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Old Sep 6, 20, 8:53 am
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Originally Posted by ClipperDelta View Post
There are currently 4 TATL flights with the D1 Suites on the A350-900 from Europe:

DL135 AMS-DTW
DL073 AMS-ATL
DL083 CDG-ATL
DL097 CDG-DTW
Looks like the DTW<->AMS is the only one of these which will survive, post-mid-October? (The rest will transition to A330s).
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Old Oct 20, 20, 10:54 pm
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Originally Posted by ATOBTTR View Post
What route and aircraft types are options? Its somewhat difficult to generically say X is better than Y because each airline has different set-ups and configurations on different aircraft within their fleet. If my choice was between a DL A330 or an AF A330, Id go with DL most likely. If the choice is between a DL 767-300 and an AF 777 with the newest J seats, Id opt for AF.
How about AF 777 vs. DL A350? (The pics I saw on TPG made the footwell look pretty constrained on one side on the AF 777 in comparison to the A350).

https://thepointsguy.com/reviews/air...usiness-class/

TIA, Ken
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Old Oct 20, 20, 11:07 pm
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Originally Posted by BenA View Post
If your companion has concerns about the footwell, my recommendation would be to book one of the four Delta One Suites flights ClipperDelta highlighted, and sit in Row 1 - the footwell is significantly larger than in the other seats, and while the increased galley noise can be a consideration for some, it can be outweighed by the additional comfort for tall folks.
Okay: we'll be doing this at least once again so: is the extra footwell space only in the row 1 center seats? TIA.
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