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Rude self-upgrader pilot sent back to Coach last night

Rude self-upgrader pilot sent back to Coach last night

Old Aug 12, 2020, 2:04 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by p100a
I'd give up my seat for the pilot. They are the ones taking us safely to and from, fighting fatigue, putting their career on the line every 6 months for medical checks, check rides etc. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt. You have absolutely no clue what his situation was. Many times a jumpseating pilot it told by the captain to grab an empty seat in front - for safety reasons in case something goes wrong, among other reasons. Not everything is so black and white!
Wouha,
I worked 9 years for a cargo airline flying B747/400F's with 14 seats in the top.
Often travelled to our outstations for work, often had dead heading crews on board and sat in a cockpit seat with some nice crew (a vast minority).
Unfortunately I must admit that most of our pilots showed the worst I have seen in working people.
I could write a book about all that went wrong in that company, but pilots were the worst.
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 2:25 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
Super pretty and cold hearted.
Too pretty to sit in the jump seat?
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 5:40 am
  #33  
 
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@readywhenyouare - Only if the FO is not a she and is black.

Last edited by gabbai; Aug 12, 2020 at 5:43 am Reason: Clarity
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 6:03 am
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare
Depends on what happened. I don't know if there are any captains still working or even alive that worked for Eastern or Continental back in the day but many of them who managed to get another flying job would not allow pilots who crossed their picket line to use the flight deck jumoseat. Super pretty and cold hearted.
I presume you are referring to denying jumpseats to a scab. You will still see Captains who check names against the "master scab list." These days, there are only a few scabs still around (active pilots), and most are at United. As an outsider, you may see this as "petty and cold hearted", but union pilots see scabs as the lowest type of scum.
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 6:52 am
  #35  
 
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cant believe how much traction this thread is getting.... I think most of us miss flying... (well I know my wife and I do)
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 6:56 am
  #36  
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Originally Posted by fotographer
cant believe how much traction this thread is getting.... I think most of us miss flying... (well I know my wife and I do)
I dont miss flying, but I miss going places. I would pay extra just to get someplace instantly, instead of 24+ hours to get to my destination.
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 7:37 am
  #37  
 
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Good for the FAs.

Sorry you work for the airline you are not "ruler of the world" and playing "DYKWIA" only makes your employer look bad. Yes, you are a pilot, Yes, the rules still apply to you. No, you are not "entitled' to do whatever you please LOL!
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 8:01 am
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by fly747first
Ok, thanks for the vocabulary lesson, mom. However, your point is moot... the guy wasn't supposed to be there plain and simple. The cabin crew knew, he knew, and all of us in First came to know. Maybe you can offer the perpetrator legal advise. HAHA
We get it, you don't want anyone muscling in on your exclusive first class. The reason MSPEconomist tried to educate you is that the situation is different between a deadheading and a jumpseating (commuting pilot). (As was pointed out to you, either could be on the last flight of the night since neither of these things only go TO assignments, they do get to go home as well). A DH will have a confirmed seat and there will be rules around whether or not that DH is eligible for an upgrade. I would agree that if this pilot was on a DH, they should have known better than to try to poach a seat.

However a jumpseating pilot is often not assigned a specific seat as they generally board last. I can't tell you how many times I've been told by the gate agent to "take any open seat" as they are just trying to get the flight closed on time. I also can't tell you how many times I've been given a good seat (a last minute no show), walked down to take it only to find a "rude" passenger has switched into it because they thought we are done boarding. The general protocol in this case is to take whichever seat the other pax has moved out of, of course this is usually a middle seat. Do we complain about that? We do not.

Lastly, jumpseaters must check in with the Captain. This is partly a courtesy but the Captain also checks your paperwork to make sure you are entitled to jumpseat and of course if you are going to ride in the actual jumpseat it is common to ask nicely if that "is OK". You shoot the breeze a little depending on how busy the Captain is, whether you know him or not. A nice Captain will often say something along the lines of "take whatever seat you like" or Talk to "purser" to see what they've got open or any number of variations along those lines. Many times this is just the captain wanting to be friendly - they don't usually know what's open or not but they are just being hospitable. It's perfectly possible in this case the Captain may have said "grab a first class seat, "purser" won't mind.

Now regarding other discussion that came up, the Law couldn't be more clear. 14CFR 91.3 states The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft. This is also replicated in Delta's flight operations manual and does get used from time to time by Captains to point out that if a difference of opinion exists between any two parties as to the operation of the aircraft, the Captain's opinion is the one that will win the day. However this is used very judiciously in most cases by most Captains because they don't want a reputation as an ....... and don't want to piss off the cabin crew whom they will be likely to have to work with in most cases.

So in the example of above where the Captain may have said to the jumpseater "grab a first class seat" and then the purser says to the jumpseater "Covid rules mean you can't sit there" the most likely response from the Captain would be "sorry man, I tried". All this is just by way to point out that the pilot in this case may not have been quite the arrogant ... you have attributed to him and quite likely may just have been going along with what had been told or suggested to him by one or more parties along the way. Maybe instead of condemning him on the internet you could have tried a little harder to understand what may have been going on about which you, apparently, know very little.
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 8:41 am
  #39  
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Originally Posted by Raymoland
We get it, you don't want anyone muscling in on your exclusive first class. The reason MSPEconomist tried to educate you is that the situation is different between a deadheading and a jumpseating (commuting pilot). (As was pointed out to you, either could be on the last flight of the night since neither of these things only go TO assignments, they do get to go home as well). A DH will have a confirmed seat and there will be rules around whether or not that DH is eligible for an upgrade. I would agree that if this pilot was on a DH, they should have known better than to try to poach a seat.

However a jumpseating pilot is often not assigned a specific seat as they generally board last. I can't tell you how many times I've been told by the gate agent to "take any open seat" as they are just trying to get the flight closed on time. I also can't tell you how many times I've been given a good seat (a last minute no show), walked down to take it only to find a "rude" passenger has switched into it because they thought we are done boarding. The general protocol in this case is to take whichever seat the other pax has moved out of, of course this is usually a middle seat. Do we complain about that? We do not.

Lastly, jumpseaters must check in with the Captain. This is partly a courtesy but the Captain also checks your paperwork to make sure you are entitled to jumpseat and of course if you are going to ride in the actual jumpseat it is common to ask nicely if that "is OK". You shoot the breeze a little depending on how busy the Captain is, whether you know him or not. A nice Captain will often say something along the lines of "take whatever seat you like" or Talk to "purser" to see what they've got open or any number of variations along those lines. Many times this is just the captain wanting to be friendly - they don't usually know what's open or not but they are just being hospitable. It's perfectly possible in this case the Captain may have said "grab a first class seat, "purser" won't mind.

Now regarding other discussion that came up, the Law couldn't be more clear. 14CFR 91.3 states The pilot in command of an aircraft is directly responsible for, and is the final authority as to, the operation of that aircraft. This is also replicated in Delta's flight operations manual and does get used from time to time by Captains to point out that if a difference of opinion exists between any two parties as to the operation of the aircraft, the Captain's opinion is the one that will win the day. However this is used very judiciously in most cases by most Captains because they don't want a reputation as an ....... and don't want to piss off the cabin crew whom they will be likely to have to work with in most cases.

So in the example of above where the Captain may have said to the jumpseater "grab a first class seat" and then the purser says to the jumpseater "Covid rules mean you can't sit there" the most likely response from the Captain would be "sorry man, I tried". All this is just by way to point out that the pilot in this case may not have been quite the arrogant ... you have attributed to him and quite likely may just have been going along with what had been told or suggested to him by one or more parties along the way. Maybe instead of condemning him on the internet you could have tried a little harder to understand what may have been going on about which you, apparently, know very little.
Your points are all moot. The captain should obviously be aware of the mandatory seat-blocking in effect in DL's cabins. Beyond that, a display of aggression and argument with other uniformed crew in front of customers is never acceptable behavior.
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 9:13 am
  #40  
 
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Originally Posted by steve64
The Captain (along with the Dispatcher) is in charge of the flight while the flight is in operation. An airplane sitting at the gate is not a flight in operation. At this point, the Gate Agt is in charge of the flight.
All of this, and I'm surprised it didn't get more likes.

The bottom line (for this seat poacher scenario) is that whether he was deadheading as part of an active rotation, or a regular nonrev trying to get to FLL, he would have had a boarding pass with a seat assignment. Obviously his seat assignment was not for F. He chose to abscond with the seat. The FAs caught him. In the process, he acted a fool.

If he was jumpseating in the flight deck, his boarding pass would have reflected 01P as a seat assignment. In the COVID era, I imagine most captains and FOs operating the aircraft are going to want their jumpseaters to sit in the cabin. At that point he should have deferred to the purser on where the best location to sit is.
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 9:14 am
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by Raymoland
I can't tell you how many times I've been told by the gate agent to "take any open seat" as they are just trying to get the flight closed on time.
Nice post!

I suspect in this COVID era where Delta is attempting to space out their passengers, "take any open seat" is no longer in common use.
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 9:38 am
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by p100a
I'd give up my seat for the pilot. They are the ones taking us safely to and from, fighting fatigue, putting their career on the line every 6 months for medical checks, check rides etc. Give the guy the benefit of the doubt. You have absolutely no clue what his situation was. Many times a jumpseating pilot it told by the captain to grab an empty seat in front - for safety reasons in case something goes wrong, among other reasons. Not everything is so black and white!
I wouldn't give Mother Teresa my seat if she poached it, and I consider sitting where seating isn't available (like this situation with the COVID limits) to be that.
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Old Aug 12, 2020, 10:38 am
  #43  
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This thread appears to have run its course.
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