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-   -   Customer-unfriendly decision: 120-minute delay for a full refund (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/2022687-customer-unfriendly-decision-120-minute-delay-full-refund.html)

LAX_Esq Aug 2, 20 5:08 pm


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 32576738)
No, schedule is not. The passenger's contract with DL specifically provides:

"published schedules, flight times, aircraft types, seat assignments, and similar details reflected in the ticket or Delta’s published schedules are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract."

As to the notion that this is a contract of adhesion and thus voidable, that's just one of those social media urban myths.

Who in this thread said anything about the contract being voidable? Nevertheless, it certainly is a contract of adhesion.


Simple solution is not to buy deeply discounted fares. Then you can cancel for any reason or no reason at all. Don't like the font on your boarding pass, the chime made by the BP reader, or the muzak played at your gate, just leave and call in at your leisure for your money.


Another simple solution is not to give crooked airline execs billion$ and trillion$ of taxpayer money in bailout$.

s0ssos Aug 2, 20 5:21 pm


Originally Posted by smartytravel (Post 32576427)
further, Iím incessantly surprised that American consumers allow corporations to treat them so poorly.

Simple. American consumers only want one thing. Cheap. Nothing else matters. They have no principles, other than cheapness. Which is also a religion here.

smartytravel Aug 2, 20 8:20 pm


Originally Posted by Often1 (Post 32576738)
No, schedule is not. The passenger's contract with DL specifically provides:

"published schedules, flight times, aircraft types, seat assignments, and similar details reflected in the ticket or Deltaís published schedules are not guaranteed and form no part of this contract."

LOL, seriously? Just because they define it to make it convenient for them does not mean itís what itís supposed to be.

Do you pay the barber without the expectation of getting a haircut? You pay, and the assumption is youíll get a haircut within 15-30 minutes in a way thatís pleasing and nice.

The airlines abuse lack of real competition, and idiot customers are clapping their hands asking to be ripped off more.

People buy flights for specific times on specific segments, because they expect to be be delivered somewhere at a specific time and place.

Theres no denying this. People donít buy a ticket hoping they would get somewhere +/- 2 hours. Thatís greed of the airlines.

smartytravel Aug 2, 20 8:22 pm


Originally Posted by s0ssos (Post 32576860)
Simple. American consumers only want one thing. Cheap. Nothing else matters. They have no principles, other than cheapness. Which is also a religion here.

and yet, somehow there are no cheap tickets anywhere in the US.

In europe, you can fly from London to Athens, or Madrid to Warsaw for $20-$100.

The same distance in the US would be $300-$400.

the price driven decisions is a myth fed by the airline executives so they can enjoy billion dollar profits.

smartytravel Aug 2, 20 8:29 pm


Originally Posted by LAX_Esq (Post 32576840)
Who in this thread said anything about the contract being voidable? Nevertheless, it certainly is a contract of adhesion.



Another simple solution is not to give crooked airline execs billion$ and trillion$ of taxpayer money in bailout$.

Exactly. If I cannot deliver a service that someone pays for, I offer an alternative and money back.

In free market and a true consumerist society, it would be on me, as a business, to convince a customer to select an alternative. Because a consumer can choose what to do, Iíd stand on my head to offer the truly best customer service, perks and other benefits so consumer chooses the alternative.

However, here we have a situation where airlines say ďops, sorry, we donít guarantee any schedule, time, etc, though we will charge you premium for your desired time.Ē

gitismatt Aug 2, 20 9:01 pm


Originally Posted by smartytravel (Post 32576427)
How can a passenger be deprived of what they pay for?

imagine you want to get a full haircut at a barber. Instead of giving you a haircut, the barber only trims your hair over the ears. Do you think thatís fair?

if airlines can change by 120 minutes, why couldnít passengers change by 120 minutes without consequences?

at what point in this conversation has delta stopped providing the full services that the customer paid for? they aren't taking someone attempting to fly from JFK-LAX and dropping them off in OMA. The passenger is still getting the full value so your barber analogy doesn't work.

and to be honest, if my barber called and asked me if I could come in an hour earlier or later, I'd probably be willing to accommodate

LAX_Esq Aug 2, 20 9:54 pm


Originally Posted by gitismatt (Post 32577148)
and to be honest, if my barber called and asked me if I could come in an hour earlier or later, I'd probably be willing to accommodate

The proper analogy is: you prepaid for a haircut at 5pm, and your barber TOLD you to come in at 3pm instead, when you have to be at work at 3pm, otherwise he's keeping your money and tough doodie.

smartytravel Aug 2, 20 9:59 pm


Originally Posted by LAX_Esq (Post 32577225)
The proper analogy is: you prepaid for a haircut at 5pm, and your barber TOLD you to come in at 3pm instead, when you have to be at work at 3pm, otherwise he's keeping your money and tough doodie.

thats the analogy I was looking for! Thank you.

BRITINJAPAN4 Aug 2, 20 11:03 pm


Originally Posted by smartytravel (Post 32577227)
thats the analogy I was looking for! Thank you.

I really dont get your problem. You buy a ticket that has some restrictions and in return the price is low. You have a choice, you could pay more for more flexibility, but you choose not to.
If you arrive more than two hours late, this is and extreme issue, so the answer is simply either book a cheap flight tow hours earlier, or pay more for the flight you want. Of course if it goes tech or there
us a weather delay you still wont get there on time.

Why is this a "Delta Problem" its pretty much a "transport problem"

LAX_Esq Aug 2, 20 11:32 pm


Originally Posted by BRITINJAPAN4 (Post 32577282)
I really dont get your problem. You buy a ticket that has some restrictions and in return the price is low. You have a choice, you could pay more for more flexibility, but you choose not to.

You're getting it backwards. If you buy a cheaper ticket with restrictions and YOU want to change the ticket, you're SOL; or if you buy a more expensive ticket without restrictions and YOU want to change the ticket, you're good. In either case, if THE CARRIER is the one who is unilaterally changing the ticket, there's no reason why you should be SOL.

You pay more for a flexible ticket so YOU can unilaterally change it, not to protect yourself and prevent THE CARRIER from unilaterally changing it and screwing you over.

BRITINJAPAN4 Aug 2, 20 11:38 pm


Originally Posted by LAX_Esq (Post 32577303)
You're getting it backwards. If you buy a cheaper ticket with restrictions and YOU want to change the ticket, you're SOL; or if you buy a more expensive ticket without restrictions and YOU want to change the ticket, you're good. In either case, if THE CARRIER is the one who is unilaterally changing the ticket, there's no reason why you should be SOL.

You pay more for a flexible ticket so YOU can unilaterally change it, not to protect yourself and prevent THE CARRIER from unilaterally changing it and screwing you over.

You have lost me here.

If you have a flexible ticket and the flight is delayed you can change or cancel at any time, if you have a cheap restricted fare you have to wait until the flight is delayed more than two hours. How is this anyone screwing you over since in the terms of contract the schedule can be changed at any point. Delta, or any airline, is not hiding any of this,

s0ssos Aug 2, 20 11:54 pm


Originally Posted by BRITINJAPAN4 (Post 32577282)
I really dont get your problem. You buy a ticket that has some restrictions and in return the price is low. You have a choice, you could pay more for more flexibility, but you choose not to.
If you arrive more than two hours late, this is and extreme issue, so the answer is simply either book a cheap flight tow hours earlier, or pay more for the flight you want. Of course if it goes tech or there
us a weather delay you still wont get there on time.

Why is this a "Delta Problem" its pretty much a "transport problem"

Actually have you ever tried to buy a fully refundable ticket? I have. And when I tried to get a refund they said I couldn't.

BRITINJAPAN4 Aug 2, 20 11:56 pm


Originally Posted by s0ssos (Post 32577317)
Actually have you ever tried to buy a fully refundable ticket? I have. And when I tried to get a refund they said I couldn't.

Um...yes, many times and yes, a few times I have cancelled and received a full refund without any drama or problem.

LAX_Esq Aug 2, 20 11:58 pm


Originally Posted by BRITINJAPAN4 (Post 32577305)
You have lost me here.

If you have a flexible ticket and the flight is delayed you can change or cancel at any time, if you have a cheap restricted fare you have to wait until the flight is delayed more than two hours. How is this anyone screwing you over since in the terms of contract the schedule can be changed at any point. Delta, or any airline, is not hiding any of this,

You're missing the point, which is even expressly stated in the thread title -- that the carrier drafting their contract to allow itself to unilaterally change your flight by 120 minutes without offering you a refund is a "consumer-unfriendly decision," i.e., screwing customers over.

BRITINJAPAN4 Aug 3, 20 12:03 am


Originally Posted by LAX_Esq (Post 32577321)
You're missing the point, which is even expressly stated in the thread title -- that the carrier drafting their contract to allow themselves to unilaterally change your flight by 120 minutes without offering you a refund is a "consumer-unfriendly decision," i.e., screwing customers over.

No, I get that this is a complaint, I just think that when you get a benefit ( lower price) with a very clear and published Restriction, then this is not customer unfriendly. If they said fly from a to b at $500, no choices, that would be customer unfriendly.

You do know that airlines are a commercial business intended to make money for their owners, don't you ?


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