DL Response to AA/B6 Partnership???
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Aug 2014
Location: Las Vegas, NV
Programs: Delta DM
Posts: 425
DL Response to AA/B6 Partnership???
Just curious what the DL flyertalk community thinks of AA's move to partner up with B6 to beef up their presence in the NYC/BOS area. Does Delta need to retaliate somehow? Or is their foothold solid enough to weather this new storm coming their way? With everyone going through tough times, in my opinion, and with Delta's partners (VS, AM, TAM) going through bankruptcy/restructuring, part of me thinks DL needs to come up with something to counter this with. But then the other part of me says they need to just stay the course and that will be the best thing to do right now. What do you think?
OPS
OPS
#2
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2007
Location: BOS
Programs: DL DM 2MM, Marriott LT Titanium, Hertz PC, Avis PC
Posts: 15,194
Well prior to the pandemic, DL was on the attack in BOS and adding a lot of routes, while AA was getting beat down. So it was basically DL vs B6 in BOS. The teaming up will certainly help B6 to defend their routes and put more pressure on DL... and with the coronavirus I'm not sure if there really is ability or will for a response from DL.
#4
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
Seems a curious move. What exactly is AA's strategy here?
They've outsourced the Northeast and coast-to-coast flying to B6/Mint. They've outsourced West Coast and Hawaii flying to Alaska. So now they are going to fight with DL for the South and fight with UA for the Midwest?? And they think that their international network be the thing that gives them a leg up against UA and DL in this model?
Please. UA has a dominant position for international travel from SFO and EWR, one that DL and AA can't match. DL has a strong corporate roster and has established themselves as the business traveler airlines with a focus on passenger experience (compared with AA who has been focused on Oasis and other projects that rip out IFE, cram more seats in the plane, and make the bathrooms the size of a small pantry). Plus B6 still isn't an international competitor for NYC so AA continues to cede NYC to DL/UA and are mostly reliant on JFK - LHR rev share with BA.
Plus AA is saddled with debt -- the international market, while lucrative, is going to take far longer to return than the domestic market yet AA seems intent on moving to a strategy driven by international revenue and outsourced domestic travel which means they'll have to share domestic revenue on these routes (including the lucrative JFK - LAX and JFK - SFO routes) at a time when they desperately need positive cash flow.
I don't think UA or DL have anything to worry about here. If anything they may actually benefit from this combination -- in the short-term it takes an AS/B6 merger off the table and instead keeps them with split portfolios spread among AS/AA/B6. I think UA/DL would be much more concerned if AS/B6 tied up to become a premium domestic carrier with limited short-term international exposure but the flexibility in their fleet to expand as travel comes back (and take advantage of potential slots opening up through bankruptcy).
They've outsourced the Northeast and coast-to-coast flying to B6/Mint. They've outsourced West Coast and Hawaii flying to Alaska. So now they are going to fight with DL for the South and fight with UA for the Midwest?? And they think that their international network be the thing that gives them a leg up against UA and DL in this model?
Please. UA has a dominant position for international travel from SFO and EWR, one that DL and AA can't match. DL has a strong corporate roster and has established themselves as the business traveler airlines with a focus on passenger experience (compared with AA who has been focused on Oasis and other projects that rip out IFE, cram more seats in the plane, and make the bathrooms the size of a small pantry). Plus B6 still isn't an international competitor for NYC so AA continues to cede NYC to DL/UA and are mostly reliant on JFK - LHR rev share with BA.
Plus AA is saddled with debt -- the international market, while lucrative, is going to take far longer to return than the domestic market yet AA seems intent on moving to a strategy driven by international revenue and outsourced domestic travel which means they'll have to share domestic revenue on these routes (including the lucrative JFK - LAX and JFK - SFO routes) at a time when they desperately need positive cash flow.
I don't think UA or DL have anything to worry about here. If anything they may actually benefit from this combination -- in the short-term it takes an AS/B6 merger off the table and instead keeps them with split portfolios spread among AS/AA/B6. I think UA/DL would be much more concerned if AS/B6 tied up to become a premium domestic carrier with limited short-term international exposure but the flexibility in their fleet to expand as travel comes back (and take advantage of potential slots opening up through bankruptcy).
#5
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: BOS
Programs: AA PP, DL PM
Posts: 2,086
Farm out the west coast and east coast flying in competitive markets to AS/B6 who are "hometown carriers" that people have better feelings for, and connect all of their passengers through their fortress hubs in DFW and CLT. They have fewer bona fide fortress hubs than DL (ATL, DTW, MSP, and SLC), so they had to figure out something to do. For long-haul flying, they can't oversaturate DFW and CLT and they want to find a use for the 777s and 787s they have, so they got some geographically convenient hubs in SEA for Asia and India, JFK and BOS for Europe, and farm out the domestic flying to a partner. AA had been floundering on non-DFW long haul flights before COVID, so it's not obvious yet if this is a winning strategy.
As I understand it, DL makes about 80% of their passenger revenue domestically and 20% internationally. UA leans more toward international, and AA is somewhere in the middle (though with less revenue). Why is AA focusing more on international than domestic?
As I understand it, DL makes about 80% of their passenger revenue domestically and 20% internationally. UA leans more toward international, and AA is somewhere in the middle (though with less revenue). Why is AA focusing more on international than domestic?
#7
Join Date: Nov 2003
Location: ORD / MDW / FLL
Programs: DL DM/1MM, AA EXP, SPG Platinum, Hyatt Platinum, Marriott Platinum
Posts: 2,295
AA is growth constrained in NYC due to slot availability. They gave away too many slots (between US and AA) and now they cannot compete. B6 offers an option for them. The issue there is that B6 is all the way out at JFK so I;m guessing this is about feeding TATL traffic and trying to maintain some meaningful presence in the NY market. As for BOS, this is all about B6 protecting their turf. DL was coming on strong pre-COVID and they have / had the capital to wait this think out.
AA's strategy is rather smart. With AS about to become a full-fledged OW partner AA flyers up and down the west coast have good options and can maintain their relationship with AA. Meanwhile, AA can focus on DFW, CLT and defending themselves in MIA where DL is going to become an irritant soon.
AA's strategy is rather smart. With AS about to become a full-fledged OW partner AA flyers up and down the west coast have good options and can maintain their relationship with AA. Meanwhile, AA can focus on DFW, CLT and defending themselves in MIA where DL is going to become an irritant soon.
#9
Join Date: Nov 2017
Programs: AA EXP, Marriott Bonvoy titanium
Posts: 537
Another way to look at this is what kind of credit card/loyalty point revenue will this drive. Given loyalty point earn airlines more in profits than flying butts this opens up a whole new market for aa
#11
Join Date: Aug 2016
Location: BOS
Programs: AA PP, DL PM
Posts: 2,086
Delta doesn't need to do anything, they know that they have a lot of strong reasons for folks to choose DL, and they have a lot of good flying out of their core hubs.
It's not obvious that B6 will be willing to pay a ton when their flights are credited to AA. Additionally, AA is going to have a tough time selling their credit card to folks that are going to be flying B6 or AS where the benefits don't apply.
It's not obvious that B6 will be willing to pay a ton when their flights are credited to AA. Additionally, AA is going to have a tough time selling their credit card to folks that are going to be flying B6 or AS where the benefits don't apply.
#14
#15
Join Date: May 2010
Posts: 3,461
Honestly I am not sure why B6 is doing this. They seem to have a good reputation and rank fairly high in customer satisfaction. Same with AS. So why join youself to an airline that has not had that "reputation" over the past few years.