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Delta to retire its entire Boeing 777 fleet by the end of the year

Delta to retire its entire Boeing 777 fleet by the end of the year

Old May 14, 20, 10:27 am
  #61  
 
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Originally Posted by FlyerWx View Post
I've noticed a reoccurring theme at DL that they really want to consolidate the fleet types they have (ie, increase fleet commonality).
True, but hardly a DL specific idea. I think just about every airline tries to do that. AA just announced they would retire 5 different plane types.
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Old May 14, 20, 10:33 am
  #62  
 
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Originally Posted by Robert Leach View Post
I will be curious to see if JNB is gone forever, or whether they will return to the old days when it was done with a stop along the way.

Flying to JNB via Europe is a long way out of the way.

I just hate this decision. Like others, the 777 was my favorite plane in the fleet.
With reduced demand, could it make sense to combine Lagos and Johannesburg (or Cape Town)? Delta uses an A330 for ATL-LOS although they apparently used 767-300ERs when the route launched. That link also mentions that Delta at one time flew to both JNB and CPT with stops at Dakar.
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Old May 14, 20, 10:37 am
  #63  
 
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An internal pilot memo states that Delta will be opening A350 pilot bases at ATL and LAX, which seems to indicate they plan on using A350s for LAX-SYD and some of the long-haul ATL routes when they restart.
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Old May 14, 20, 10:46 am
  #64  
 
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
Could you share the high maintenance cost with us? I’ve never heard that comment about the 777. Especially since American Airlines and United Airlines just ordered a bunch of them a few years ago. United even added another order recently. .
Sorry the way I worded that post was unclear; I was talking about the entire Delta fleet and how to reduce costs. They are getting rid of the MD's due to high maintenance costs and they are getting rid of the 777's as they are a very small number in the fleet. Small number of planes = higher maintenance costs due to lack of economies of scale when it comes to that model. If you have 25 777's and 100 A350's (all things being equal), the A350 maintenance costs will be less on a per plane basis because you are servicing more of the same plane vs a small number of another plane. It makes sense to get rid of the old planes (MD's) as they require substantial maintenance due to age and are no longer needed due to less demand. The 777's are being retired as they are an "outlier" plane in the fleet. You want to consolidate down to newer planes (less maintenance), planes that service the routes you intend to keep (high demand routes), and planes you have the most of (streamline maintenance and parts).
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Old May 14, 20, 10:47 am
  #65  
 
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Originally Posted by ClipperDelta View Post
An internal pilot memo states that Delta will be opening A350 pilot bases at ATL and LAX, which seems to indicate they plan on using A350s for LAX-SYD and some of the long-haul ATL routes when they restart.
I can see ATL-HND solidified as an a350 (has jumped back and forth between that and the 777). Wonder if LAX-HND would go to a 330neo or use the 350. (I realize this is all speculation at this point).
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Old May 14, 20, 10:55 am
  #66  
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Originally Posted by Jeremy3292 View Post
Sorry the way I worded that post was unclear; I was talking about the entire Delta fleet and how to reduce costs. They are getting rid of the MD's due to high maintenance costs and they are getting rid of the 777's as they are a very small number in the fleet. Small number of planes = higher maintenance costs due to lack of economies of scale when it comes to that model. If you have 25 777's and 100 A350's (all things being equal), the A350 maintenance costs will be less on a per plane basis because you are servicing more of the same plane vs a small number of another plane. It makes sense to get rid of the old planes (MD's) as they require substantial maintenance due to age and are no longer needed due to less demand. The 777's are being retired as they are an "outlier" plane in the fleet. You want to consolidate down to newer planes (less maintenance), planes that service the routes you intend to keep (high demand routes), and planes you have the most of (streamline maintenance and parts).

Well you might be surprised to learn that Delta Tech Ops services aircraft and engines they don't even operate. You can routinely see non-DL aircraft parked at Tech Ops. It was reported on another site that Tech Ops would begin taking 787 work. And we know Delta doesn't have any of those. Now, you might make a case for line maintenance. Fewer parts would need to be stocked at outstations. My personal opinion is that DL sees this as an opportunity to get some cash. The 777F is based on the 772LR and the cargo market isn't hurting anywhere near as bad as passenger.
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Old May 14, 20, 11:04 am
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Originally Posted by kjnangre View Post
I doubt it. The 739 has very good economics, this is a DL kind of plane. Consolidating to one OEM has limited benefits (actually it reduces your negotiating leverage significantly)
Not sure Delta have put back a good "image/reputation" of Boeing after the Bombardier incident (about the Cseries (A220)).
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Old May 14, 20, 11:11 am
  #68  
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Originally Posted by FBplatinum View Post
Not sure Delta have put back a good "image/reputation" of Boeing after the Bombardier incident (about the Cseries (A220)).
Agreed but the bad blood started way before that. Richard Anderson claimed he bought a used 777 for only $7 million. But the truth was that Delta bought it for parts. It was completely un-airworthy. That really made Boeing upset.
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Old May 14, 20, 11:12 am
  #69  
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Originally Posted by kjnangre View Post
You could have up to 6 months left. No final flight has been announced yet
I live in NYC; I'm not flying this year.
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Old May 14, 20, 11:13 am
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They're keeping the 767 and not the 777? That's horrid, especially comparing the two aircraft from a PS and J perspective.
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Old May 14, 20, 11:15 am
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Originally Posted by FBplatinum View Post
Not sure Delta have put back a good "image/reputation" of Boeing after the Bombardier incident (about the Cseries (A220)).
There's lots of drama on Flyertalk but I think DL's head office makes decisions based on economics, not revenge. This is not a soap opera. DL increased its order of 739s after the Boeing/CSeries dispute began. DL likes the economics of the 739, that's what matters
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Old May 14, 20, 11:16 am
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Originally Posted by readywhenyouare View Post
Well you might be surprised to learn that Delta Tech Ops services aircraft and engines they don't even operate. You can routinely see non-DL aircraft parked at Tech Ops. It was reported on another site that Tech Ops would begin taking 787 work. And we know Delta doesn't have any of those. Now, you might make a case for line maintenance. Fewer parts would need to be stocked at outstations. My personal opinion is that DL sees this as an opportunity to get some cash. The 777F is based on the 772LR and the cargo market isn't hurting anywhere near as bad as passenger.
I'm not sure how Delta servicing non-DL aircraft has anything to do with what I said. That is an agreement with other carriers who pay Delta to service their planes and Delta can charge those carriers whatever they need to to make it worth their while.

If getting rid of the 777's streamlines operations and maintenance AND they get cash out of it as well, so be it. Positive cash flow is king right now in a weak market.
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Old May 14, 20, 11:17 am
  #73  
 
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Originally Posted by FBplatinum View Post
Not sure Delta have put back a good "image/reputation" of Boeing after the Bombardier incident (about the Cseries (A220)).
Airline planning at a place like Delta doesn't typically look at grudges or emotions. Mega-orders can be $5-10B+ capital outlays and even more in long-term operational expense impact. Delta will buy what fits their needs at a price they like. I think there could be interesting human factors in negotiation in terms of two entities putting their swords down and making a deal happen but don't pretend for a second that Delta wouldn't buy commit to a Boeing order (demand issues right now aside) if Boeing gave them the right planes at the right price.
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Old May 14, 20, 11:17 am
  #74  
 
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Originally Posted by Gig103 View Post
They're keeping the 767 and not the 777? That's horrid, especially comparing the two aircraft from a PS and J perspective.
This is only the beginning of fleet retirement announcements. The 777 was the easiest to announce first as they already have a replacement for them in the A350. Ed has stated that anything scheduled to be retired within the next 5 years will be accelerated so there will surely be some 767 retirements coming up, especially since some were already scheduled to be retired before COVID-19.
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Old May 14, 20, 11:18 am
  #75  
 
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Originally Posted by Gig103 View Post
They're keeping the 767 and not the 777? That's horrid, especially comparing the two aircraft from a PS and J perspective.
Turns out there are other factors, like fleet size and the difficulty in filling a 777 when international traffic is at a historic lows.
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