BenA

In that case, your username may double as the right strategy here, given that every major airline in the US will be flying the MAX if Delta buys them.

LarryJ

I believe the argument has progressed to semantics.

"Stability" has a specific meaning when used regarding aircraft aerodynamics. The stability of the MAX is within applicable certification requirements without considering the effects of MCAS.

(The MAX is actually MORE stable than the NG is the Flaps-40 landing configuration due to the application of fly-by-wire spoilers which is new to the MAX. This allows the Flaps-40 setting to be the normal landing configuration on the MAX instead of Flaps-30 as in the NG. The result is a landing speed, for most landings, around 8 knots slower than it would be in an NG)

The issue that required MCAS has to do with a certification requirement for the elevator pitch forces to increase proportionally as the aircraft's angle-of-attack (AoA) increases. In short, this means that as you increase the AoA, the input force (pull) on the yoke required to continue to increase the AoA increases in a linear fashion. The larger engine nacelles, which are farther forward of the aircraft's center-of-gravity (CG) than on the NG, produce a nose-up pitching moment at higher AoAs. This nose-up pitching moment from the nacelles counters the naturally increasing nose-down force that occurs as AoA increases in such a way that the required increase in pilot input force isn't achieved. i.e. the nose does not become 'heavy' enough during very high AoA conditions. MCAS was designed to restore the required control feel through the introduction of additional nose-down moment through the application of nose-down stabilizer trim. The very high AoAs that would require MCAS input are not encountered in normal operations.

Since this required proportion increase in control force wasn't sufficient, the aircraft was not certifiable without MCAS, even as a non-common type to the NG.

mattp1987

That's...that's not what MCAS does. It compensates for increased lift from the nacelles at high AoA which made the stick input non-linear and makes it linear. That does NOT mean that the aircraft was inherently aerodynamically unstable.

I'm not even sure what "perfectly stable" means. It's certainly not a term I've ever seen in years of studying or working in aerospace.

N830MH

Yes, if they order A321XLR or A223. They could be replace MD88 or 757 aircraft. Yes, as long if they order A321XLR. Only for TATL flight or Hawaii flight.

FlyDeltaMD88

You guys all make very good points. I'm just taking my opinions from Ed coming out publicly and internally saying that the MAX is not an option at this point, although this of course was before this whole COVID-19 mess. I totally forgot to about some of the 738's (and A320's of course) getting up there in age. I know the older A319's and A320's have become hangar queens.

I'm more curious to see why they turned on the 717 so fast. They had plans to keep them in the fleet at least until the end of the decade and were even planning on throwing PTV's in them, so I really am wondering if this is just speculation or if Boeing can give them a fantastic deal that they would be stupid not to take. I enjoy the 717 because some of the routes they serve would normally be served by us (regional) on Delta Connection CRJ's or E175's. The 717 has allowed them to throw more mainline service at airports that can't handle an A319 or 737. I'm not even sure they know at this point but I'm definitely interested to see Delta's fleet strategy at the end of this.

GrayAnderson

Speculation on my part, but it is entirely possible that Boeing is worried about mass cancellations from lease companies (who might be in deep trouble before too long) and this is an attempt to turn some of those orders into a transfer (at a deep discount) rather than a cancellation. Another possibility is that this is part of some game of musical chairs to get "vaporware" sales that Boeing is having to pay customers for transferred around (they wouldn't have to pay Delta, in all likelihood). I don't know about payment schedules and whatnot on large airplane orders, but have other airlines put down advance deposits on their orders? An airline that's in trouble getting too "bail out" on an order they're desperately trying not to have to pay for finding a new home for the order, forfeiting part or all of a deposit, and Delta picking up the wreckage seems plausible.

micstatic

Please no. The less 737's the better. The 737 is truly a "narrowbody"

DCAhome

I would be sad to lose the 717's for exactly the reason you stated. There are many places were the alternative will be a CRJ or E175.

s0ssos

I think it is something like a big balloon filled with air. You know, like the Hindenberg

ethernal

I don't disagree as cancellations are incredibly likely. On the flip side, Boeing is way behind on their order book since they had to shut down production and it will take a long time to ramp it back up - they're hundreds of planes behind where they "should" be. So the question is really whether or not the cancellations will be greater than their big backlog. The answer is probably yes but it is not obvious given the number of airframes Boeing is behind on.

DenverBrian

NG production only stopped in January; why not stop the MAX, resume 738 production until a clean-sheet new airplane is ready?

Newman55

Because it wouldn’t sell and there’s no reason to.

BenA

Also, the amount of effort needed to restart NG production would far exceed the amount of effort needed to fix the certification issues with the MAX.

DenverBrian

Except they keep finding certification issues beyond MCAS. Like wiring.

resolute

and also don't forget quite a few on here also slept at a Holiday Inn Express recently too... especially the IHG Forum frequenters...