DL partnerships in trouble? Virgin Australia goes under (voluntary administration)
Dec 14, 2021, 8:08 pm
#91
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Assuming pax numbers between the US and Australia eventually return to pre-Covid numbers, which airline is going to fill the void left by VAs TPAC routes? Without a partner on the routes, perhaps DL would start LAX-MEL or BNE themselves. Certainly not counting on it, but wishful thinking.
Dec 14, 2021, 9:33 pm
#92
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Why are you assuming that DL will stop interlining with QF and VA?
BTW, PMNW and QF were once quite close. They offered a joint Circle Pacific fare (vaguely like RTW, but focused on the Pacific Ocean), IIRC with JAL too. There was even a little known provision to allow access to QF lounges in connection with QF domestic flights if one had a TPAC business class segment on the ticket. IIRC you could also do a PMNW RTW including QF segments as well as PMNW and KLM (plus probably a bunch of other carriers).
BTW, PMNW and QF were once quite close. They offered a joint Circle Pacific fare (vaguely like RTW, but focused on the Pacific Ocean), IIRC with JAL too. There was even a little known provision to allow access to QF lounges in connection with QF domestic flights if one had a TPAC business class segment on the ticket. IIRC you could also do a PMNW RTW including QF segments as well as PMNW and KLM (plus probably a bunch of other carriers).
I do wonder if DL will try a triangle route if they can get 5th freedom rights and add a tag to AKL from SYD. That or pull the old UA move and try and add a tag from SYD to MEL (without 5th freedom rights) so they can at least offer SYD and MEL on DL metal.
The good news for DL right now is that the governments of Australia and New Zealand aren’t showing any signs that they are ready for pre-COVID levels of traffic so this isn’t something DL needs to worry about for a couple of years
Dec 14, 2021, 9:34 pm
#93
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Assuming pax numbers between the US and Australia eventually return to pre-Covid numbers, which airline is going to fill the void left by VAs TPAC routes? Without a partner on the routes, perhaps DL would start LAX-MEL or BNE themselves. Certainly not counting on it, but wishful thinking.
Pre CV19 USA<---->AU had QF, JQ, AA, UA, VA, DL & HA.
And Air NZ via AKL (who fly to AU primary & some secondary airports) & FJ via NAN. Then Air Canada and the Asian airlines.
If you were not going to Sydney many of the other airlines were a good option.
More capacity than demand
Dec 15, 2021, 12:57 pm
#94
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I think the interesting thing is that the overall impact means that DL's TPAC offerings become even weaker. They've already dumped NRT and all of the 'shorter' inter-asia flights to the Oceania/region like GUM, SPN, ROR etc several years ago pre-covid. The codeshare partnership with KE essentially means if you want to go anywhere in Asia or south pacific that its going to be through ICN and change to KE metal.
Mar 7, 2022, 9:32 am
#95
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I just received an email from Virgin Australia's FF program (Velocity) announcing the end of the partnership with DL and its replacement by UA. The date given is April 2022 for the "partnership with UA" to replace the codeshare agreement with DL.
The last date for VA FFs to earn credit for DL flights will be June 12, 2022. This is also the last date for VA FFers to book or make voluntary changes to award tickets on DL flights. Missing credit requests for DL flights (taken before June 13, 2022) can be submitted to VA through December 12, 2022.
The email doesn't contain any information about how the partnership with UA will work, nor is there any mention or hint of VA joining *A.
The last date for VA FFs to earn credit for DL flights will be June 12, 2022. This is also the last date for VA FFers to book or make voluntary changes to award tickets on DL flights. Missing credit requests for DL flights (taken before June 13, 2022) can be submitted to VA through December 12, 2022.
The email doesn't contain any information about how the partnership with UA will work, nor is there any mention or hint of VA joining *A.
Last edited by MSPeconomist; Mar 7, 2022 at 10:38 am Reason: I meant VA, not VS.
Mar 7, 2022, 10:34 am
#96
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I just received an email from Virgin Australia's FF program (Velocity) announcing the end of the partnership with DL and its replacement by UA. The date given is April 2022 for the "partnership with UA" to replace the codeshare agreement with DL.
The last date for VS FFs to earn credit for DL flights will be June 12, 2022. This is also the last date for VS FFers to book or make voluntary changes to award tickets on DL flights. Missing credit requests for DL flights (taken before June 13, 2022) can be submitted to VS through December 12, 2022.
The email doesn't contain any information about how the partnership with UA will work, nor is there any mention or hint of VS joining *A.
The last date for VS FFs to earn credit for DL flights will be June 12, 2022. This is also the last date for VS FFers to book or make voluntary changes to award tickets on DL flights. Missing credit requests for DL flights (taken before June 13, 2022) can be submitted to VS through December 12, 2022.
The email doesn't contain any information about how the partnership with UA will work, nor is there any mention or hint of VS joining *A.
I'm really surprised OZ/US government approved this. (This means less competition and UA is already partners with NZ)
Mar 7, 2022, 10:37 am
#97
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Mar 7, 2022, 11:30 am
#98
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I just received an email from Virgin Australia's FF program (Velocity) announcing the end of the partnership with DL and its replacement by UA. The date given is April 2022 for the "partnership with UA" to replace the codeshare agreement with DL.
The last date for VA FFs to earn credit for DL flights will be June 12, 2022. This is also the last date for VA FFers to book or make voluntary changes to award tickets on DL flights. Missing credit requests for DL flights (taken before June 13, 2022) can be submitted to VA through December 12, 2022.
The email doesn't contain any information about how the partnership with UA will work, nor is there any mention or hint of VA joining *A.
The last date for VA FFs to earn credit for DL flights will be June 12, 2022. This is also the last date for VA FFers to book or make voluntary changes to award tickets on DL flights. Missing credit requests for DL flights (taken before June 13, 2022) can be submitted to VA through December 12, 2022.
The email doesn't contain any information about how the partnership with UA will work, nor is there any mention or hint of VA joining *A.
On the VA web site:-
- 14 Dec 2021 Virgin Australia thanks Delta Air Lines
- 14 Dec 2021 Virgin Australia takes flight with United Airlines
- https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/in...s-arrangements
- Air Transport Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of the United States of America [2008] ATNIF 3 and Exchange of notes amending the Air Transport Agreement between the Government of Australia and the Government of the Uni
- https://www.infrastructure.gov.au/in...lable-capacity
UNITED STATES OF AMERICA
DESIGNATION STATUS: MULTIPLE
AVAILABLE CAPACITY:
PASSENGER SERVICES
Designated Australian airlines may determine the frequency and capacity of services operated.
CARGO SERVICES
Designated Australian airlines may determine the frequency and capacity of services operated.
Co-operative Marketing Arrangements
Australian airlines may enter into cooperative marketing arrangements such as blocked-space, code-sharing or leasing arrangements with:
(a) an airline or airlines of either Party;
(b) an airline or airlines of a third country; and
(c) a surface (land or maritime) transportation provider of any country.
Note: Information about conditions applying to the operation of scheduled services and cooperative marketing arrangements may be obtained from the Department of Infrastructure, Regional Development and Cities.
DESIGNATION STATUS: MULTIPLE
AVAILABLE CAPACITY:
PASSENGER SERVICES
Designated Australian airlines may determine the frequency and capacity of services operated.
CARGO SERVICES
Designated Australian airlines may determine the frequency and capacity of services operated.
Co-operative Marketing Arrangements
Australian airlines may enter into cooperative marketing arrangements such as blocked-space, code-sharing or leasing arrangements with:
(a) an airline or airlines of either Party;
(b) an airline or airlines of a third country; and
(c) a surface (land or maritime) transportation provider of any country.
Note: Information about conditions applying to the operation of scheduled services and cooperative marketing arrangements may be obtained from the Department of Infrastructure, Regional Development and Cities.
Last edited by Mwenenzi; Mar 7, 2022 at 12:47 pm
Mar 7, 2022, 2:33 pm
#100
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Here is the full text from the email:
Virgin Australia Group and United Airlines have recently announced a new partnership that will offer customers more destinations and more benefits when travelling to cities across the United States, Mexico, South America and the Caribbean.
From April 2022, the partnership with United Airlines will replace Virgin Australia’s current codeshare and Velocity Frequent Flyer's relationship with Delta Air Lines. From Monday 13 June 2022, Delta Air Lines will no longer be a Velocity partner.
We would like to thank Delta Air Lines for their long-standing commitment and relationship with Virgin Australia and Velocity.
From 13 June 2022 the following offers will cease:
- Points and Status Credit earn on Delta Air Lines flights: Last flight date to earn is 12 June 2022
- Reward Seat bookings on Delta Air Lines flights – last date to book your future Reward Seat, and make changes to existing Reward Seats (including route changes) is 12 June 2022
- Date changes for travel will continue to be permitted up to 1 year from ticket issue, subject to availability
- All other frequent flyer benefits
- Missing Points for eligible Delta Air Lines flights taken on or before 12 June 2022 can be applied for retrospectively via the Velocity Frequent Flyer website no later than 12 December 2022.
It isn't a merger or a joint venture. No AU approvals required. When was the last time a codeshare was denied by the DOT?
UA and NZ don't seem to be very close partners outside their *A requirements. And this kind of proves that, as NZ / VA divorced recently and are fairly bitter competition. So don't exactly expect a big collaboration between NZ and VA now just because UA is in the mix. NZ has even done a partnership with QF!
Virgin Australia Group and United Airlines have recently announced a new partnership that will offer customers more destinations and more benefits when travelling to cities across the United States, Mexico, South America and the Caribbean.
From April 2022, the partnership with United Airlines will replace Virgin Australia’s current codeshare and Velocity Frequent Flyer's relationship with Delta Air Lines. From Monday 13 June 2022, Delta Air Lines will no longer be a Velocity partner.
We would like to thank Delta Air Lines for their long-standing commitment and relationship with Virgin Australia and Velocity.
From 13 June 2022 the following offers will cease:
- Points and Status Credit earn on Delta Air Lines flights: Last flight date to earn is 12 June 2022
- Reward Seat bookings on Delta Air Lines flights – last date to book your future Reward Seat, and make changes to existing Reward Seats (including route changes) is 12 June 2022
- Date changes for travel will continue to be permitted up to 1 year from ticket issue, subject to availability
- All other frequent flyer benefits
- Missing Points for eligible Delta Air Lines flights taken on or before 12 June 2022 can be applied for retrospectively via the Velocity Frequent Flyer website no later than 12 December 2022.
UA and NZ don't seem to be very close partners outside their *A requirements. And this kind of proves that, as NZ / VA divorced recently and are fairly bitter competition. So don't exactly expect a big collaboration between NZ and VA now just because UA is in the mix. NZ has even done a partnership with QF!
Last edited by CPMaverick; Mar 7, 2022 at 2:49 pm
Mar 7, 2022, 3:02 pm
#101
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Here is the full text from the email:
It isn't a merger or a joint venture. No AU approvals required. When was the last time a codeshare was denied by the DOT?
UA and NZ don't seem to be very close partners outside their *A requirements. And this kind of proves that, as NZ / VA divorced recently and are fairly bitter competition. So don't exactly expect a big collaboration between NZ and VA now just because UA is in the mix. NZ has even done a partnership with QF!
It isn't a merger or a joint venture. No AU approvals required. When was the last time a codeshare was denied by the DOT?
UA and NZ don't seem to be very close partners outside their *A requirements. And this kind of proves that, as NZ / VA divorced recently and are fairly bitter competition. So don't exactly expect a big collaboration between NZ and VA now just because UA is in the mix. NZ has even done a partnership with QF!
Mar 7, 2022, 3:21 pm
#102
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I thought that had dissolved but you are correct. However it is a very limited JV, it doesn't even include LAX-AKL or LAX-SYD itineraries which would be the most popular. It's pretty minimal but you are right, it is more than they are required to do for *A.
May 2, 2022, 10:20 am
#103
Join Date: Nov 2009
Posts: 1,601
Assuming pax numbers between the US and Australia eventually return to pre-Covid numbers, which airline is going to fill the void left by VAs TPAC routes? Without a partner on the routes, perhaps DL would start LAX-MEL or BNE themselves. Certainly not counting on it, but wishful thinking.
I'd be shocked to see an ATL-AKL flight... its not much shorter than JNB which has proven difficult for DL's aircraft to handle the range with pax and cargo, and its not like there is a good diversion point if a tech stop is needed. We'll probably be stuck with DL only offering LAX-SYD and trying to push any more demand onto KE codeshare through ICN which is also a poor option.
If Delta adds AKL (or MEL or BNE) it will be from LA. The only slightly less remote chance of anything outside of LAX would be a SEA-SYD flight, but even then, i suspect Delta will continue to add more LAX-SYD frequency if they feel the need to add to SYD.
May 2, 2022, 10:35 am
#104
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It would be nice if DL were to add flights to Australian cities other than SYD. It's such a pain to connect I-D or D-I there.
May 2, 2022, 11:21 pm
#105
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There's always LATAM via SCL. I've flown JFK-SCL-AKL/SYD (plane stops in AKL both directions) many times. I've always enjoyed LATAM aircrew and J cabin service.
Only real issue is LATAM reservation, buy the ticket through an OTA or DL. Pricing was always great as LATAM generally priced JFK-SYD/AKL J cabin at really low rates.
Only real issue is LATAM reservation, buy the ticket through an OTA or DL. Pricing was always great as LATAM generally priced JFK-SYD/AKL J cabin at really low rates.