Zorak

if the C+ seats are filled then is it really a low-travel demand environment?

bloc0102

It's much harder for those buying their tickets close to departure. Sure, if you purchase 3 months out it is easy, but if you purchase less than 7 days it is exponentially more difficult.

Edit: it is also route and day/time dependant.

eneq

IMO, this is an unfair comment to make. Yes, there are a lot worse things going on in the world currently. However, that doesn't mean someone should be shamed for voicing their displeasure on non-covid news. This is a forum dedicated to travel on Delta isn't it?

Duke787

If there is a global depression and DL doesn’t exist in 2022, it doesn’t really matter how many elites got a free rollover does it?

Maybe we wait and see that DL still exists and people still have jobs and are filling planes at the same level as pre-COVID19 before we start freaking out about there being too many elites in 2022 battling for C+ and F seats.

Just a thought.

ethernal

"Low demand" is obviously relative. If I can get only 80 people on the upgrade list instead of 120, that is comparatively low demand. If there are available C+ seats (even middle ones) a week before departure instead of completely sold out 3-4 weeks in advance, that is relatively low demand. Even in 2019, there were routes that likely went out - even from ATL - with empty or Basic Economy-filled C+ seats. So everything is inherently relative.

volabam

Thank you. I am sick of the public shaming of people who dare to express concern about what happens after the current situation is past.

ethernal

This is the biggest issue - and that is that all of this is entirely premature. No one - not me, not you, not Delta - knows what the travel or general economic environment will be in the last quarter of 2020, much less 2021 and definitely not 2022. To make a rash announcement - completely unnecessarily - that has potential impacts on calendar year 2022 flying is just pandering.

Toshbaf

Business travel has essentially stopped. Even if you want to make a business trip, the other party at the destination is closed up. I expect at least 6 months of most business travel to be dead. If that is the case, then the extension is merely 6 months long, not a big deal. (I actually believe it will be more than 6 months and I also expect business travel to ramp up slowly).

Delta has value. If there's pending liquidation, there's some value in United or American trying to pick up the pieces. There's a good chance that miles will not be cancelled but the value of each mile will go down as it has been for many years.

There has never been this kind of airline downturn, like 90% less traffic in a few weeks and going on for a long time. As such, the idea that "big airlines miles never are lost" is uncharted territory. In the past, single airlines going under have had their passengers' miles retained. Example, Pan Am, TWA, Eastern, prior bankruptcies of US Airways, American, United, Delta, etc. Foreign carriers, not always true. Example, Ansett of Australia. Small carriers, not always true. Example, Midway (Airlines) FlyersFirst. (first Midway that died around 1991)

ethernal

I've posted about this in the past. this thread was from 2018 and the situation was even worse in 2019. Business traveler heavy routes had C+ completely sold out 4 weeks in advance for much of 2019.

Zorak

How is this non-COVID news? This is directly related to COVID. And the vast overwhelming response from Delta travelers on this Delta forum is positive (and also in the DM Facebook group, which I would think has a much higher concentration of people who will see eventual negative effects on the form of increased competition as a result, the response is still overwhelmingly positive).

​​​​​​Voicing displeasure is one thing, hyperbole like "disaster" is another.

Zorak

BTW did you think 2019 was a disaster?

ethernal

Agree that this is uncharted territory. In other times in history, there was at least a "stronger" airline that had a better balance sheet and was weathering a recession or low-demand travel. In this case, no one has any value. If things stay bad for long - short of government takeover / major bailout - no one will be able to acquire another airline. If Delta doesn't have any cash and has to declare bankruptcy, I can guarantee you that United and American won't either. I could see a non-aviation investor buying liquidated assets of airlines for pennies on the dollar (slots, concourses, airframes) and then holding that in cold storage to launch a very clean balance sheet low cost airline during the recovery. But I can guarantee you that United, American, or Delta won't be "saving" anyone. There is a potential for consolidation that could happen - but I find a government bailout / temporary nationalization more likely than the DoJ/FTC/FAA allowing yet another round of major airline consolidation.

orca15

Yeah, this is my experience...I often buy 4-6 days out, immediately get C+ aisles (my only choice) on PHF-ATL but not always RIC-ATL, and rarely ATL-XXX if XXX is large. But, on the other hand, I can count the number of times I sat in a window or middle seat last year on one hand and one finger, respectively. I really don't care about C+, but I really care about aisles (wide shoulders, medium legs).

For me, and I think I am more of a common DM that the guy with 375K MQM rollover, maybe there will be increased competition for C+, FC, etc. But I will go into that competition with DM, not GM, which is likely this year's actual finish. Sorry to you 2020 BIS DM's, but hey, I did all the DM stuff for years - AMEX, the occasional paid ticket when I could have used miles, loyalty to DL, etc...and now they are throwing me a big bone for doing that. I can feel pretty darn happy for myself and a little sorry for you at the same time.

On the choice benefits - I agree that was pure icing. I didn't expect it and not sure why they did it. But access to the DM line and all the times it smoothed out the rough edges of travel are going to keep me flying DL for a long time.

ek3494

What were the 2019 extensions being discussed?

ethernal

Yes. I spent way too many flights in 36C of a 737-900 on $1400 tickets and fighting with gate agents to get a middle seat C+ upgrade in an attempt to save my knees and possibly get some work done.

That said, Delta didn't "change the rules" that impacts multiple years out halfway through a qualification year like they're talking about here in 2019. So I lived with it begrudgingly knowing the context was largely demand-driven.