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Increased Turbulence Announcements Before Takeoff

Increased Turbulence Announcements Before Takeoff

Old Feb 18, 2020, 7:48 pm
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by cmd320
In inferring that the quoted post had something to do with DL's meteorology department, you implied that.
The original post (like the first one in the thread) is what that comment was about.

and the general tone of post like yours that are basically saying "If it isn't raining then there wont be turbulence"
Originally Posted by cmd320
Someone perhaps, everyone on what I assume was a TATL 767, zero percent.​​​​​​​
You sure are good at speaking in fact when you have no facts to back anything up.
Having said that your point here really doesn't matter. The pilot told you he had reports of turbulence in front of him. Its pretty simple.
People being able to hold it really doesn't matter to the conversation. Simple fact he/she was not only following procedures but they were also making the safest decision possible with the information they had.
They could have guested on it, like you clearly want your pilots to do, and ended up getting someone seriously hurt or killed.
Originally Posted by cmd320
https://www.stuff.co.nz/travel/trave...-belt-signs-on

Scenario like this could easily turn into a lawsuit.​​​​​​​
Did it? No? I wonder why?

Also I asked for data pointing to increase usage of seatbelt lights to keep passengers sitting when there is no turbulence/reported turbulence. Your link has absolutely nothing to do with that. She was trying to go to the bathroom on final approach, the seatbelt sign being on at that point isn't up the to airline or the pilots but is a FAR.

Originally Posted by cmd320
You're contradicting yourself here. On one had you say this is pretty much a liability issue, on the other you imply that the flight deck is legitimately concerned about turbulence.​​​​​​​
No I said its both.
The liability issue comes in when the airplane isn't actively bouncing around but the pilots are getting warnings from other pilots and from their meteorologist (and from the FAA) that turbulence is around them. In which case, yes, it is a liability issue. Because what happens is people like you still get up, then they hit heavy chop, you go flying into the overhead bin and then try to sue the airline. (and you lose because the seat belt sign was on and you ignored it)
So its a safety issue but its also a liability issue.
Originally Posted by cmd320
I trust the pilot to fly the plane, sure but I'm more than comfortable taking the risk to hop up and have a pee if the seat belt sign has been on for hours on end for no reason. Yes, if the aircraft is actually entering an area of severe weather or known severe to extreme turbulence, I'll hold it as long as I can,​​​​​​​
Okay. Seriously. You don't know what you are talking about. Unless it is a mistake, which probably happens .00000000000000000000001% of the time, the light is on for a reason.

Once again, as the PILOT just told you in his example, they kept the light on because of forecasts and reports of turbulence ahead. Cutting it off because "oh well it hasn't happened yet" is stupid, unsafe and irresponsible. A lot of people have been died to get to the level of safety that were are at today, and safety statistics show that.

Originally Posted by cmd320
otherwise I'm not going to sit around playing that game should there potentially be turbulence two hours later.​​​​​​​
The fact that you keep repeating the "I check for thunderstorms" line is really making me think you seriously know very little about turbulence. That is fine.
the problem is you are speaking in facts when you really need to be speaking in opinions.

either way, hoping up and getting out of the seat because you think you know more than the crew is a good way to get yourself hurt. Just FYI.
Originally Posted by cmd320
Virtually every other airline from every other country has no problem managing this issue and I don't see anything that implies there is any higher level of injury due to turbulence on non-US airlines
and ONCE AGAIN, I will ask for data proving this to be the case. Actual data. Not "well three people on FlyerTalk". Not a random blog post about some lady peeing in a cup because she wanted to get up during final approach

but clear cut data that says US carriers use the seat belts 1) more than non US carriers* 2) because US carrier are basically using the seat belt light as crowd control.


*adjusted, of course, for size.
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Old Feb 18, 2020, 8:35 pm
  #47  
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Originally Posted by Dawgfan6291
The original post (like the first one in the thread) is what that comment was about.

and the general tone of post like yours that are basically saying "If it isn't raining then there wont be turbulence"

You sure are good at speaking in fact when you have no facts to back anything up.
Having said that your point here really doesn't matter. The pilot told you he had reports of turbulence in front of him. Its pretty simple.
People being able to hold it really doesn't matter to the conversation. Simple fact he/she was not only following procedures but they were also making the safest decision possible with the information they had.
They could have guested on it, like you clearly want your pilots to do, and ended up getting someone seriously hurt or killed.

Did it? No? I wonder why?

Also I asked for data pointing to increase usage of seatbelt lights to keep passengers sitting when there is no turbulence/reported turbulence. Your link has absolutely nothing to do with that. She was trying to go to the bathroom on final approach, the seatbelt sign being on at that point isn't up the to airline or the pilots but is a FAR.


No I said its both.
The liability issue comes in when the airplane isn't actively bouncing around but the pilots are getting warnings from other pilots and from their meteorologist (and from the FAA) that turbulence is around them. In which case, yes, it is a liability issue. Because what happens is people like you still get up, then they hit heavy chop, you go flying into the overhead bin and then try to sue the airline. (and you lose because the seat belt sign was on and you ignored it)
So its a safety issue but its also a liability issue.

Okay. Seriously. You don't know what you are talking about. Unless it is a mistake, which probably happens .00000000000000000000001% of the time, the light is on for a reason.

Once again, as the PILOT just told you in his example, they kept the light on because of forecasts and reports of turbulence ahead. Cutting it off because "oh well it hasn't happened yet" is stupid, unsafe and irresponsible. A lot of people have been died to get to the level of safety that were are at today, and safety statistics show that.


The fact that you keep repeating the "I check for thunderstorms" line is really making me think you seriously know very little about turbulence. That is fine.
the problem is you are speaking in facts when you really need to be speaking in opinions.

either way, hoping up and getting out of the seat because you think you know more than the crew is a good way to get yourself hurt. Just FYI.

and ONCE AGAIN, I will ask for data proving this to be the case. Actual data. Not "well three people on FlyerTalk". Not a random blog post about some lady peeing in a cup because she wanted to get up during final approach

but clear cut data that says US carriers use the seat belts 1) more than non US carriers* 2) because US carrier are basically using the seat belt light as crowd control.


*adjusted, of course, for size.
Suffice to say you must travel almost exclusively on US airlines and domestic the vast majority of the time. You’re welcome to PM me if you want a full reply however to avoid derailing this thread any more I’ll just say I disagree with 100% of your points.
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 4:29 pm
  #48  
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Ill add my two cents on this and it is just my experience but I have experienced these announcements or this happening without announcements more in the first 6 weeks of 2020 then I have in all of either 2019, 2018, 2017 etc for the entirety of the year.
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 4:41 pm
  #49  
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Recent flight literally NO turbulence but the FAs sat for the entire flight with no service. ironically with seatbelt light fatigue multiple people got up to go to the lav INCLUDING the FAs who went to the lav even though they yelled via the PA system every time somebody got up that the seatbelt light was on.

the best example of do as I say not as I do I have seen in a very long time

Last edited by vincentharris; Feb 20, 2020 at 5:18 pm
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 5:08 pm
  #50  
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Just experienced this on DL recently and it was totally uncalled for.

Service didnt start for over an hour after takeoff, despite a lot of pax being able to make their way to the FC bathrooms without any problems.

Also, once it was safe the FC FA seemed to disappear into the YC cabin for an odd amount of time.

Last edited by AANYC1981; Feb 20, 2020 at 6:06 pm
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 5:10 pm
  #51  
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The problem is even if DL really cares if you wrote a letter in about this all the FA has to say is we felt unsafe and nothing will happen. Its an amazing excuse that I think FAs are catching on to now.
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 5:12 pm
  #52  
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Originally Posted by vincentharris
The problem is even if DL really cares if you wrote a letter in about this all the FA has to say is we felt unsafe and nothing will happen. Its an amazing excuse that I think FAs are catching on to now.
Its a slippery slope. As this attitude takes hold more and more pretty soon the service will look like AA.
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 5:17 pm
  #53  
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Originally Posted by cmd320
Its a slippery slope. As this attitude takes hold more and more pretty soon the service will look like AA.
DL has a FAR way to go to reach AA level service. The problem is over the years the service has been slipping and not recovering in my experience. Keep going this way and they sure can have a race with AA to the bottom.
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 5:32 pm
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Originally Posted by vincentharris
The problem is even if DL really cares if you wrote a letter in about this all the FA has to say is we felt unsafe and nothing will happen. Its an amazing excuse that I think FAs are catching on to now.
I can confirm from a pilot friend at another airline, that lazy FA's encourage pilots to turn on the seatbelt light and make an announce about turbulence so they don't have to do any work. Its a quid pro quo. Pilots feel pressured to oblige because FA's remember who let them be lazy and who didn't when they deadhead or need amenities in flight and vengeful FAs will charge pilots for crew meals among other annoyances. I hope this does not become a thing at DL.

As mentioned upthread, the aviation map from the national weather service is a great resource...if you know what you are looking at. I check that map before every flight and based on that map, I have not had any instances in which I felt that the turbulence excuse was being used to promote laziness. I had a flight not too long ago in which a fellow pax did accuse the crew of using the excuse because we had zero turbulence and FAs were seated for the first two hours of the flight. There was an area of severe turbulence across the Midwest - the type that puts you on the ceiling so we took a very long route and just skirted the area, but most pax were not aware of that. We were close enough to that area that it was not worth the risk in my opinion.
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 5:38 pm
  #55  
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Originally Posted by vincentharris
DL has a FAR way to go to reach AA level service. The problem is over the years the service has been slipping and not recovering in my experience. Keep going this way and they sure can have a race with AA to the bottom.
I agreed and thats why Ive stuck to DL for domestic flying for the most part. However, once this kind of attitude gets a foothold it becomes a cancer and spreads. Its important to eradicate it quickly.
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 6:03 pm
  #56  
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Yep, the FAs and pilots really agree to announce turbulence so there is no inflight service....Obviously not all the time and I have no issue if the turbulence is really that bad but it seems these days 75% of the time the crew just dont want to do their job and use this as a way out.

Weirdly I see this more on DL flights than AA.
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 6:12 pm
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I guess this is their newest excuse to get out of doing service, you'd think they'd be happy with them successfully having Delta management get away with "Express Service" on short but not too short flights while other airlines like B6 or AA or WN or UA can still do a full beverage service.

Why even become a FA if you're going to be this lazy?
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 7:32 pm
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Originally Posted by FlyDeltaConnection
I guess this is their newest excuse to get out of doing service, you'd think they'd be happy with them successfully having Delta management get away with "Express Service" on short but not too short flights while other airlines like B6 or AA or WN or UA can still do a full beverage service.

Why even become a FA if you're going to be this lazy?
I think Delta allows their FAs a lot of latitude to help stave off unionization. It's unfortunate.
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 9:40 pm
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Originally Posted by The Situation
I can confirm from a pilot friend at another airline, that lazy FA's encourage pilots to turn on the seatbelt light and make an announce about turbulence so they don't have to do any work. Its a quid pro quo. Pilots feel pressured to oblige because FA's remember who let them be lazy and who didn't when they deadhead or need amenities in flight and vengeful FAs will charge pilots for crew meals among other annoyances. I hope this does not become a thing at DL.
So let me get this straight.

FA's are now keeping track of which 14,000+ pilots aren't participating in this alleged "SeatBelt Gate." (Of which I have never had any FA suggest to me this scenario in nearly 20 years in the industry, BTW.)

Additionally these pilots, commanding large jets safely through multiple theatres throughout the world, all but crumble under the immense pressure of dealing with a vengeful FA. This FA is now charging them for their crew meals; the same crew meals of which are contractually required, provided free of charge, and catered on nearly every leg.

Honestly, no offense intended. But does that even remotely seem realistic?
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Old Feb 20, 2020, 10:23 pm
  #60  
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Originally Posted by vincentharris
Recent flight literally NO turbulence but the FAs sat for the entire flight with no service. ironically with seatbelt light fatigue multiple people got up to go to the lav INCLUDING the FAs who went to the lav even though they yelled via the PA system every time somebody got up that the seatbelt light was on.

the best example of do as I say not as I do I have seen in a very long time
This was the case on my flight today. Sub-500 mile flight. FA announced during her 10k announcement that they'd been told to stay seated. Capt. said this again at his "passing 20k ft" announcement and said lots of turbulence reports on our route.

Flight was one of the smoothest I've had in a while. Capt did apologize on his descent announcement and said something like "I guess the air was smoother than we expected".

To be fair, we were flying right over/behind all the storms blowing through the southeast US today, so I don't doubt that there were plenty of rough air reports earlier in the day.
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