Seattle airport too much traffic

Old Feb 7, 20, 1:30 pm
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Originally Posted by jeet View Post
ATC absolutely doesn't care but plays it somewhat democratically and allocates slots to airlines at busy times.
Then its up to the airlines to decide which flights get a hold and which ones can still take off on time and keep the landing slot.

Have seen at DFW where AA and AS flights into SEA were scheduled to leave at around same time and AA took off on time but AS took an ATC delay. On that day some other AS flight into SEA took priority over the one leaving DFW
Exactly, During a published GDP, airlines are allowed to cancel/substitute their own flights.

Por ejemplo: letís say we have hourly service from XXX-YYY. YYY goes on a GDP with average two hour delays. The airline SOC could cancel two of the flights and substitute all the others to be back ontime (essentially taking the slots of the earlier cancelled flights). It doesnít always work out exactly like that (sometimes the AAR changes due to weather), but it is a very valuable tool for system ops. We utilized it a lot in the mid 2000s when I worked in an SOC. Unfortunately load factors are a lot higher across the board these days, so Iím not sure how much value that tool has anymore.
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Old Feb 7, 20, 1:34 pm
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Originally Posted by wifiguru View Post

I've noticed RJ's tend to get air traffic delayed versus mainline flights. I've held on the tarmac in a E175 at FAT for over an hour due to traffic versus a 737 at LAX getting out right away at the same time/day.
This is true, but maybe not for the reason you think. RJs are primarily used for short haul flights. Short haul flights (and even larger aircraft) are more likely to get ensnared in MIT delays due to already in the air long haul flights that ATC has to fit them in between. Itís easier to hold close in flights on the ground til they have a gap.
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Old Feb 7, 20, 3:02 pm
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Originally Posted by HDQDD View Post
This is true, but maybe not for the reason you think. RJs are primarily used for short haul flights. Short haul flights (and even larger aircraft) are more likely to get ensnared in MIT delays due to already in the air long haul flights that ATC has to fit them in between. Itís easier to hold close in flights on the ground til they have a gap.
I always thought it was based on distance to the airport. I've been on plenty of 757s flying JAX-ATL that are held on the ground until a specific time in order to route them in at a specific time even when there is no weather at ATL. It's more fuel efficient to keep the plane on the ground instead of vectoring it once airborne in order to slow it down.
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Old Feb 7, 20, 3:23 pm
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Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR View Post
I always thought it was based on distance to the airport. I've been on plenty of 757s flying JAX-ATL that are held on the ground until a specific time in order to route them in at a specific time even when there is no weather at ATL. It's more fuel efficient to keep the plane on the ground instead of vectoring it once airborne in order to slow it down.
Exactly. Same from RDU. RDU ATL flights are usually filed over the OZZZI STAR (Standard Terminal ARrival). So are all the other arrivals from the Northeast. A few hours during the day, you can see arrivals stacked symmetrically all the way up to DC. Airports like RDU, CLT, GSO, RIC, ORF, etc all have to join that line. We almost always sit for at least 10 minutes until there’s a gap to transition into the OZZZI arrival flow. This is also happening continually on at least three other arrival fixes. If we were leaving on say SLC ATL, there’s a lot more space for us to sequence into an arrival STAR.

Link to the OZZZI arrival for other ATC nerds like me: https://aeronav.faa.gov/d-tpp/2002/00026OZZZI_C.PDF
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Old Feb 7, 20, 5:02 pm
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without getting too deep into it...the type of delay program changes how the delays are taken/given, or if there are even "slots" for airlines to swap with themselves.

there are different types of GDPs, such as EDCT, ground stops etc. There are also enroute restrictions such as MIT. There is also gate to gate metering, TBFM and more. So that's why sometimes you take the delay on the ground, sometimes you get vectored, sometimes you get speeds assigned. Sometimes you are delayed and there is nothing the airline can do to "swap" with themselves. You may also get vectored for TBFM, for MIT....for other reasons.

Basically, its a complicated system and there isn't a single answer for how delays work or who gets them.
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Old Feb 8, 20, 12:11 am
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A few PAE slots are now available as United has dropped their SFO flights.
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Old Feb 8, 20, 10:33 am
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
A few PAE slots are now available as United has dropped their SFO flights.
It would be fun if DL snapped them up because, well, they're there.
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Old Feb 8, 20, 11:10 am
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Originally Posted by DenverBrian View Post
It would be fun if DL snapped them up because, well, they're there.
I doubt DL would go for them. It seems that no one is making money at PAE - even AS has made a few adjustments to their flights since they opened up shop there.
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Old Feb 8, 20, 11:10 am
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Originally Posted by DenverBrian View Post
It would be fun if DL snapped them up because, well, they're there.
What would they do with them? The only thing I could possibly see is SLC - PAE.
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Old Feb 8, 20, 11:43 am
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Originally Posted by sjc ord ldr View Post
what would they do with them? The only thing i could possibly see is slc - pae.
pdx? Lax? Sfo?
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Old Feb 8, 20, 12:01 pm
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Originally Posted by rogo View Post
pdx? Lax? Sfo?
UA can't make SFO - PAE work, why could DL? Also, PDX and SFO would be all O/D on both sides. SLC would make the most sense for connection opportunities and then LAX.
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Old Feb 8, 20, 12:15 pm
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Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR View Post
What would they do with them? The only thing I could possibly see is SLC - PAE.
MSP, perhaps. But it's simply a thought. I have a feeling DL has grabbed routes to keep them out of the hands of competitors before. And SEA is clogging up.
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Old Feb 8, 20, 1:10 pm
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PAE - SFO would be a total win for me

DO IT DL, DO IT NOW!!!!
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Old Feb 8, 20, 2:15 pm
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Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR View Post
UA can't make SFO - PAE work, why could DL? Also, PDX and SFO would be all O/D on both sides. SLC would make the most sense for connection opportunities and then LAX.
Well, even PAE-LAX will be a long shot based on how AS is performing without competition. (There were numbers posted on airliners.net)
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Old Feb 15, 20, 7:32 am
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Happened to me last year flying AS from RDU. We were delayed at RDU due to ATC (despite being on a 5+ hour flight), ended up at this awful bus gate because in addition to the too much traffic there aren't enough gates, and I missed my connection. It's made me think twice about future SEA connections.
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