Seattle airport too much traffic

Old Jan 25, 20, 10:24 pm
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Qwkynuf View Post
For all of the people talking about DL moving ops to PAE - which of the two gates will you have them take over????

That area would require some seriously major construction to support much more than what AS and US run through there now - new parking facilities, new terminal (to replace the existing new terminal???), there's one runway - with no space to add another...

It's a nice dream, but I can't see it. Any expansion like that would be 10 years out if they were turning shovels today.
The single runway can certainly handle more than two gates' worth of flights daily. And there's plenty of room to expand the passenger terminal. After they move all the MAXes. <ducking>
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Old Jan 26, 20, 6:40 am
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An airline with significant service wonít be the one to move out to PAE in significant quantities. For examples, look at MDW, PIE, LUV, and even FLL.

Itíll be the Spirits, Frontiers, or even a Hawaiian. Someone who is looking to take O&D rather than a mix of transfers like AS and DL have in their hubs.
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Old Jan 26, 20, 8:14 am
  #63  
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Originally Posted by formeraa View Post
While POS bears some responsibility, it is nearly impossible to predict that a major airline (DL) would decide to open a major at SEA. How on earth do you forecast that?
Simply put, by watching traffic volume on I-5 and I-405 burst the metro's infrastructural buttons.

The Seattle metro has been in growth mode for 25 years, since Microsoft launched Windows 95 and the consumer Internet exploded. The inadequacy of all regional transport infrastructure -- roads, light rail, buses, Sea-Tac, you name it -- is a long-running, multi-decade story. Regional cultural mindset resists expansion until it's way overdue. This is a city that rejected federal mass transit funding circa 1970 because it didn't want to enable growth and movement (the money went to San Francisco/BART and Atlanta/Metra instead) and is now shamefacedly playing catch-up, building out (incredible costly) rail infrastructure that won't be done until mid-century and will be overtaxed from day one.

The "Seattle Way" is to dodge a problem until problems become crises, then do the least possible, as lengthily and expensively as possible. That allergy to vision, planning, etc. is why Sea-Tac is in meltdown today -- a state of affairs any Bellevue real estate agent could have predicted in 2005. And I expect the improvements under way now, when done, will quickly be swamped by traffic levels.

Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
UA had a focus city/mini-hub in SEA in the 1990s until ~9/11. Their ops used much/most of N.
Another non-secret: United shriveling to a token presence at SEA left AS an inadequate sole incumbent. You didn't have to be a master network planner to see the opportunity. The situation 2000-2015 was obviously never going to last. I'm just surprised AA, with its weakness in the West, didn't step up to make the hub move instead of DL. But someone was going to invade to challenge AS and meet / stimulate demand. If the Port of Seattle didn't see that coming at the turn of the century, it had its head in the sand.
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Old Jan 26, 20, 9:57 am
  #64  
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Any chance PAE could become more like a regional outstation for DL? Theres no way itíll become a hub (PAE/SEA is never going to be like LGA/JFK, at least not in the near future). But one might look at the service DL provides to BUR, ONT, or SBA given their relative closeness to LAX ó connection to the SLC hub, and sometimes an ATL flight.

Realistically all I can imagine seeing anytime soon might be a SLC-PAE flight, likely a regional flight. (Though adding PAE-PDX capacity is probably what would help more to alleviate some pressure on SEA, I donít know how profitable that would be given the competition).
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Old Jan 26, 20, 12:13 pm
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Originally Posted by ryw View Post
Any chance PAE could become more like a regional outstation for DL? Theres no way itíll become a hub (PAE/SEA is never going to be like LGA/JFK, at least not in the near future). But one might look at the service DL provides to BUR, ONT, or SBA given their relative closeness to LAX ó connection to the SLC hub, and sometimes an ATL flight.

Realistically all I can imagine seeing anytime soon might be a SLC-PAE flight, likely a regional flight. (Though adding PAE-PDX capacity is probably what would help more to alleviate some pressure on SEA, I donít know how profitable that would be given the competition).
PAE's just-built terminal is T-I-N-Y. It has 2 gates. Well, 3 if you count 2A and 2B separately. It has 3 restrooms. It has parking for ~400 cars. It has two lectern-sized ticket counters. ONT and BUR are *huge* compared to PAE. LGB is probably 4x the size.

It's a nice little airport. I have used it a couple of times recently when going from PDX to Bellingham and the flight times to BLI didn't work for me. Much easier drive from Everett than from SeaTac. But it will need a significant expansion to be able to support any additional airlines.

The first time I flew through there I was talking to the AS agent at the ticket counter & she told me that AS hadn't originally planned on using PAE at all. She said that Southwest and United had been the ones driving the expansion, but that Southwest had dropped out at the last minute.

Here is the floorplan of the terminal - where are we thinking the extra flights are going to fit?

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Old Jan 26, 20, 2:40 pm
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Does delta bank flights like American does?
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Old Jan 26, 20, 3:08 pm
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Originally Posted by footballfanatic View Post
Does delta bank flights like American does?
At SEA, I think DL does. https://www.flightsfrom.com/SEA/departures?airlines=DL - banks are larger during peak season though (example: https://www.flightsfrom.com/SEA/depa...eTo=2020-07-17). Interestingly, as a side note, it does look like this will be the first summer DL has flights to the Bay Area scheduled before 7 AM.

Last edited by ab2013; Jan 26, 20 at 3:15 pm
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Old Jan 26, 20, 3:10 pm
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Originally Posted by footballfanatic View Post
Does delta bank flights like American does?
6.5.0

Yes and no. Delta doesn't have an operation nearly as banked as, say DFW. DTW and MSP are the the two hubs that operate the closest to a traditionally banked schedule. The international gateway-focused operations, JFK and SEA in particular, have banks the facilitate D-I and I-D, but also have plenty of flights outside of the banks. ATL is so massive and has so many flights that it's essentially a rolling operation as service to many cities is upwards of 8+ flights/day so it's tough to tease apart when exactly a bank starts and ends. That being said, there's definitely certain times that are more "peak" than others, such as the first flights of the day and last flights of the night to the SE and east coast around 8:00am and 11:30pm.
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Old Jan 26, 20, 8:49 pm
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As someone based in SEA, and who flies SEA every week -- I hate this airport. It is one of my least favorite airports in the country.

I've noticed RJ's tend to get air traffic delayed versus mainline flights. I've held on the tarmac in a E175 at FAT for over an hour due to traffic versus a 737 at LAX getting out right away at the same time/day.


It's a growing issue and I don't plan on seeing the issue going away anytime soon. Early morning and late evening flights are always the best.
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Old Jan 26, 20, 9:54 pm
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Late evenings are great - largely because DL hasn't quite built up a large redeye bank yet - it's mostly just regionals, hubs, CVG, and ... new for this summer ... IAD/TPA.
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Old Feb 6, 20, 6:04 pm
  #71  
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Originally Posted by SJC ORD LDR View Post

From October 2018. There was low fog at SEA.
​​​​​​​what app/website is this?
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Old Feb 6, 20, 6:43 pm
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Originally Posted by musicdude91 View Post
what app/website is this?
Looks like FlightAware to me. There is also another app called Flightradar24 which does similar.
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Old Feb 6, 20, 7:58 pm
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Originally Posted by wifiguru View Post
As someone based in SEA, and who flies SEA every week -- I hate this airport. It is one of my least favorite airports in the country.

I've noticed RJ's tend to get air traffic delayed versus mainline flights. I've held on the tarmac in a E175 at FAT for over an hour due to traffic versus a 737 at LAX getting out right away at the same time/day.


It's a growing issue and I don't plan on seeing the issue going away anytime soon. Early morning and late evening flights are always the best.
I can guarantee you that ATC doesn't care if you're mainline or in a regional jet. It all depends on where you fall in line with TBFM, sometimes you get the delay on the ground, or in the air (or both....)
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Old Feb 7, 20, 10:08 am
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Originally Posted by djmodifyd View Post
I can guarantee you that ATC doesn't care if you're mainline or in a regional jet. It all depends on where you fall in line with TBFM, sometimes you get the delay on the ground, or in the air (or both....)
ATC absolutely doesn't care but plays it somewhat democratically and allocates slots to airlines at busy times.
Then its up to the airlines to decide which flights get a hold and which ones can still take off on time and keep the landing slot.

Have seen at DFW where AA and AS flights into SEA were scheduled to leave at around same time and AA took off on time but AS took an ATC delay. On that day some other AS flight into SEA took priority over the one leaving DFW
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Old Feb 7, 20, 11:18 am
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Originally Posted by musicdude91 View Post
​​​​​​​what app/website is this?
It's Flightaware.
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