Seattle airport too much traffic

Old Jan 23, 20, 11:37 pm
  #46  
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Originally Posted by djp98374 View Post
That is actually not the reason

It has more to do with things being riegonalized with smaller capacity carriers thus you need more flights to take on the volume

At peak evening time you have p, service by AS and DL to the smaller airports in NW.. They have around 60 flights from the 5-7 pm time alone coming in and and more going out on top of that you have other carriers last flights out in the west for connections at their hubs

this time for international redeyes to europe

there ais a bit of a lull then the red wyes to east coast start after 9pm.
You kind of just proved my point though, instead of say 30 flights from 5-7PM on larger aircraft there are now 60 flights in that time frame using mainly smaller aircraft. Those extra planes add a lot more congestion to the airport & airspace slowing things down.
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Old Jan 24, 20, 5:19 am
  #47  
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Yesterday we only had a 7 minute ground hold before take off to ATL and I was amazed, it is probably the shortest ground hold I have experienced in years (short of actually going straight to the run way and taking off)
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Old Jan 24, 20, 9:54 am
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Originally Posted by djp98374 View Post
Not true

I have had many ground stops to hubs due to volume. Sure this could be aftermath of weather delays which generally happen every other day
Volume delays are determined by ATC. Volume is an airport (or airspace) constraint, not an airline one.

Just going back through the last 7 days of GDP/GS's, exactly zero of them were carrier requested programs. In that same time there were dozens, if not hundreds of ATC initiated programs. Thousands if you include MIT restrictions. That is normal.

FWIW: I used to be an ATC coordinator in SOC for a major airline (not DL).
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Old Jan 24, 20, 11:18 am
  #49  
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Originally Posted by sullim4 View Post
The DL expansion is what really kicked off the growth and congestion here. [snip]
Long term, the state is considering alternatives like adding another airport to the south, possibly at McChord Field, or possibly expanding operations at PAE. For AS, I'd like to see them move more ex-SEA O/D traffic there. They have a bunch of QX-operated E175s serving west coast routes to LAX, SFO, PDX, etc but I bet they would be successful shifting more capacity over to Paine Field in the way of mainline 737 service.
I'd love to see DL expand into PAE with a couple daily flights nonstop into either SFO or SJC, SLC or LAX, and even DTW. For all of us who commute from Everett north, it'd sure provide great flexibility and eliminate the lengthy drive thru Seattle/Bellevue during the morning/evening commute rush
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Old Jan 24, 20, 11:20 am
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Originally Posted by goldmedallionflyer View Post
I'd love to see DL expand into PAE with a couple daily flights nonstop into either SFO or SJC, SLC or LAX, and even DTW. For all of us who commute from Everett north, it'd sure provide great flexibility and eliminate the lengthy drive thru Seattle/Bellevue during the morning/evening commute rush
Agreed, but I don't see DL doing this any time soon. I'm sure there's enough O/D demand up and down the west coast and inside of WA to drive at least a bit of traffic to PAE, but then they lose the frequencies that business travelers want at SEA, and it probably hurts their already mediocre yields in a way that might not make it worth PAE at all.
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Old Jan 24, 20, 11:28 am
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It isn't just the airport traffic!
https://www.king5.com/article/traffi...c-91029e682d6a
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Old Jan 24, 20, 12:02 pm
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bridge to new IAF going up this week

The Port of Seattle is constructing a bridge that will connect the South Satellite Terminal with the new International Arrivals Facility (IAF).

The prefabricated bridge was planned to be moved into position yesterday overnight. The construction firm is estimating 7 days to safely secure the bridge in place before aircraft will be allowed to taxi underneath. During this seven day period, taxi movement will be severely impacted. Reduced Airport Arrival Rates, increased gate holdouts, loss of gates and ATC Initiatives (TBFM, MIT & GDPs). The FAA and Port Authority are anticipating significant impact to the operations of those airlines in the South Complex, and to the airport due to reduced arrival rates.




So we'll have a cool new bridge over the AOA to walk on, ala Denver, but for the next week its going to cause some degree of slowdowns due to the reduced real-estate.
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Old Jan 24, 20, 12:49 pm
  #53  
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Originally Posted by BearX220 View Post
In +/- 20 years SEA has gone from sleepy to totally paralyzed / overwhelmed. DL's expansion had a lot to do with it, but so did the Port of Seattle's steadfast refusal to meet forecast traffic demand. Incredibly, with 24.8 million pax boardings in 2018, SEA now handles more pax than EWR, IAH, MSP or PHL... and more than twice as many as IAD, SAN, or SLC. Northeast traffic levels bring Northeast-style delays.

I'm very glad to have moved away from the PNW... I no longer have to cope with SEA on a weekly basis. Last time I was there the place was mobbed with standees and queues for everything and it was just a regular operating day.
While POS bears some responsibility, it is nearly impossible to predict that a major airline (DL) would decide to open a major at SEA. How on earth do you forecast that? DL simply did it because AS wouldn't sign an exclusive feeder agreement with them. Again, is that part of any forecasting algorithm? And, to their credit, POS is building out or is proposing to build out, all the solutions that were developed conceptually YEARS ago. SEA is landlocked and it's not like there are tons of options for expansion there.
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Old Jan 24, 20, 1:00 pm
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I don’t see DL at PAE anytime soon; the short haul flights out of SEA all work in part because they feed the international connections. Perhaps I could see LAX and SLC, but I think AS has the demand covered for west coast point to point traffic out of PAE for the foreseeable future...
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Old Jan 24, 20, 1:04 pm
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Originally Posted by formeraa View Post
While POS bears some responsibility, it is nearly impossible to predict that a major airline (DL) would decide to open a major at SEA. How on earth do you forecast that? DL simply did it because AS wouldn't sign an exclusive feeder agreement with them. Again, is that part of any forecasting algorithm? And, to their credit, POS is building out or is proposing to build out, all the solutions that were developed conceptually YEARS ago. SEA is landlocked and it's not like there are tons of options for expansion there.
SEA is a wealthy, fast-growing metro area, it makes sense as a connection to Asia and Europe, and AS had some very high yield monopoly routes (also some highly competitive low yield routes not to be ignored, but often people are blinded by the shiny object). If DL was not in the picture today, and as an airline executive, would you not see the appeal of that market? If DL didn't move in, another airline would have. AA had the codeshare agreement with AS, so that would have made sense and perhaps UA would have sought to reduce the pressure on some of their chronically delayed SFO operations. Growth would have happen no matter what DL did and the port needs to start starting to think about some possible quick fixes to the relieve the pressure as it doesn't appear that the area is going to stop growing anytime soon.
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Old Jan 24, 20, 2:56 pm
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Originally Posted by manacit View Post
Personally, moving from NYC where I flew out of JFK/LGA to Seattle means my airport experience got markedly better overall. It's a much shorter one-chair ride on the Link to get to the airport, and I've yet to hit the insane wait times for both departure and arrival I regularly saw from the northeast. The SEA lounge alone makes the experience a great upgrade from the crowded JFK SCs.
Same — I also moved from NYC to Seattle, and in the 2.5 years I’ve been here, my airport experience is insanely better overall. Even the delays happening this week because of the bridge pale in comparison to the years-long LGA and JFK renovation impact — at least as someone traveling to/from the airport.

That said, it would make more sense to move more of the regional flights to PAE.
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Old Jan 24, 20, 3:09 pm
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Originally Posted by The Situation View Post
SEA is a wealthy, fast-growing metro area, it makes sense as a connection to Asia and Europe, and AS had some very high yield monopoly routes (also some highly competitive low yield routes not to be ignored, but often people are blinded by the shiny object). If DL was not in the picture today, and as an airline executive, would you not see the appeal of that market? If DL didn't move in, another airline would have. AA had the codeshare agreement with AS, so that would have made sense and perhaps UA would have sought to reduce the pressure on some of their chronically delayed SFO operations. Growth would have happen no matter what DL did and the port needs to start starting to think about some possible quick fixes to the relieve the pressure as it doesn't appear that the area is going to stop growing anytime soon.
Absolutely — Delta invested because it saw the potential of the market and saw the trend. If it wasn’t DL, it would have been someone else. If I’m AS, I’d definitely feel deceived by Delta to some extent because going from “international partner” to “we’re making your home base our new hub” is a big blow, but let’s not pretend any other competent airline (so that throws out AA) wouldn’t have done the same thing.

But all of this is reciprocal too. Part of the reason for Seattle’s continued growth is also fueled by the fact that it has a major player like DL making the investment in the airport for international travel and wider connections. Which is why POS has had to step up to support expansion plans.
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Old Jan 25, 20, 6:36 am
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Originally Posted by The Situation View Post
SEA is a wealthy, fast-growing metro area, it makes sense as a connection to Asia and Europe, and AS had some very high yield monopoly routes (also some highly competitive low yield routes not to be ignored, but often people are blinded by the shiny object). If DL was not in the picture today, and as an airline executive, would you not see the appeal of that market? If DL didn't move in, another airline would have
I mostly agree with what you wrote, but you ignore that UA had a focus city/mini-hub in SEA in the 1990s until ~9/11. Their ops used much/most of N.

Granted, SEA has gone through a 2nd wave of growth/wealth. And the 3rd runway now allows 2 runways to be used for landing in bad weather. The opportunity for another airline definitely improved in the last 10 years.
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Old Jan 25, 20, 11:26 am
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Originally Posted by emma dog View Post
I mostly agree with what you wrote, but you ignore that UA had a focus city/mini-hub in SEA in the 1990s until ~9/11. Their ops used much/most of N.

Granted, SEA has gone through a 2nd wave of growth/wealth. And the 3rd runway now allows 2 runways to be used for landing in bad weather. The opportunity for another airline definitely improved in the last 10 years.
It was not ignored...its just an apples to oranges comparison. The 1990's was before the rise of Amazon et al. SEA in the 1990's vs SEA now is completely different. In the 1990's, living in SEA was cheap compared to where I was living (lower housing prices, low taxes, cheaper gas, cheaper food) and the two employers were Microsoft and Boeing. Now its the third most expensive real estate market, all other cost of living categories are among the most expensive, the population has exploded and now there are a ton of very successful tech companies.
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Old Jan 25, 20, 12:27 pm
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For all of the people talking about DL moving ops to PAE - which of the two gates will you have them take over????

That area would require some seriously major construction to support much more than what AS and US run through there now - new parking facilities, new terminal (to replace the existing new terminal???), there's one runway - with no space to add another...

It's a nice dream, but I can't see it. Any expansion like that would be 10 years out if they were turning shovels today.
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