Seattle airport too much traffic

Old Jan 23, 20, 3:32 pm
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by samwise6222 View Post
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Loopy doopy doop
I had a flight a couple weeks ago do a lap around Mt Rainier - that was pretty cool! Overall though, as a SEA-based flyer, SEA sucks. The terminals are dirty and crowded, traffic into the airport is horrendous, flight delays due to congestion have become normal, and there has been a significant decline in the quality of employee at SEA. I actually prefer JFK to SEA at this point
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Old Jan 23, 20, 3:56 pm
  #32  
 
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Originally Posted by manacit View Post

Without getting into OMNI territory, it definitely doesn't help that short regional flights would be train rides in other parts of the world. SEA-GEG/PDX/PSC/YVR are a significant number of aircraft movements every day (the real limiting factor here, not pax) and, if replaced by trains, would ease a significant amount of the burden placed on SEA and likely improve passenger experience significantly.
SEA-PSC can have 11 RT a day between AS and DL. 22 aircraft movements, either turbo props or RJs for an airport serving about 250,000 folks a 3-4 hour drive away. Add in another 30 RT to PDX you have almost 100 aircraft movements at SEA for two cities less than 200 miles away. Add in GEG at 22 RT and you get almost 7 movements per hour at SEA for these 3 cities based on an 18 hour travel day (0600-2359). Local traffic really impacts capacity at SEA.
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Old Jan 23, 20, 4:01 pm
  #33  
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Originally Posted by samwise6222 View Post
... Loopy doopy doop
sorry, those aren't loops, they're wiggles
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Old Jan 23, 20, 4:02 pm
  #34  
 
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Originally Posted by samwise6222 View Post


Loopy doopy doop
A lot of my flights to SEA from points east make a right turn at Spokane and run a semi-circle and get back on the straight line near Moses Lake to get properly sequenced. The bigger the loop the more time to kill before our sequence spot. Needless to say we arrive later than expected based on our departure time (both app and pilot announcement).
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Old Jan 23, 20, 4:17 pm
  #35  
 
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Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
Sometimes itís a runway hold at VPS. The amount of pavement is huge (main runway could handle a cargo 747 ferrying the space shuttle from California back to KSC) you can get 20-30 minute gaps in scheduled civilian service and there are no general aviation aircraft so getting in the way isnít really an issue if the military side of the airport has a light take off and landing schedule that day
Same here at PNS going to ATL. ~60% of my flights have a hold at the runway entrance for anywhere between 5-20 minutes for ATC to slot us in.
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Old Jan 23, 20, 4:55 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by Paplover View Post
SEA-PSC can have 11 RT a day between AS and DL. 22 aircraft movements, either turbo props or RJs for an airport serving about 250,000 folks a 3-4 hour drive away. Add in another 30 RT to PDX you have almost 100 aircraft movements at SEA for two cities less than 200 miles away. Add in GEG at 22 RT and you get almost 7 movements per hour at SEA for these 3 cities based on an 18 hour travel day (0600-2359). Local traffic really impacts capacity at SEA.
Right now, from my house, it is a 4.5 hour drive to PDX, 4 hours to YVR and 3.5 hours to PSC...and its not even rush hour yet. You never know from day to day if its going to be 2 hours, 6 hours or if snow in the mountain passes or mudslides or crashes will make it impossible to travel by car. If I take an airplane, I will leave my house and arrive at the destination in 2.5 hours and without wear and tear on my car. The value is not the convenience or the frequency of flights, but knowing that I WILL get to my destination and will do so in a reasonable amount of time. More mainline aircraft on these routes to guarantee reliability would be appreciated and I would be happy to trade it for less frequent flights and longer queues to board the plane.
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Old Jan 23, 20, 4:57 pm
  #37  
 
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Hi -

For trains to be an effective alternative, there would have to be frequent Link service to Tukwila station (Think the MTA Penn Station - Grand Central Line) and then timely connecting schedules from TUK-PDX and TUK-SEA-GEG.

Not going to happen. Not in my lifetime.
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Old Jan 23, 20, 4:58 pm
  #38  
 
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Originally Posted by samwise6222 View Post


Loopy doopy doop


From October 2018. There was low fog at SEA.
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Old Jan 23, 20, 5:34 pm
  #39  
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Originally Posted by The Situation View Post
...The value is not the convenience or the frequency of flights, but knowing that I WILL get to my destination and will do so in a reasonable amount of time. More mainline aircraft on these routes to guarantee reliability would be appreciated and I would be happy to trade it for less frequent flights and longer queues to board the plane.
the airlines have to balance convenience and frequency with revenue and cost ... and they have determined that it's more profitable to use smaller aircraft on most if not all the flights in short-haul markets like SEA<->PDX/YVR/PSC ... that said, though, I've seen a handful of mainline jets on SEA<->PDX recently (both AS and DL)
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Old Jan 23, 20, 5:39 pm
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
the airlines have to balance convenience and frequency with revenue and cost ... and they have determined that it's more profitable to use smaller aircraft on most if not all the flights in short-haul markets like SEA<->PDX/YVR/PSC ... that said, though, I've seen a handful of mainline jets on SEA<->PDX recently (both AS and DL)
DL is still trailing AS by quite a bit in yield in these regional markets.
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Old Jan 23, 20, 6:12 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by jrl767 View Post
the airlines have to balance convenience and frequency with revenue and cost ... and they have determined that it's more profitable to use smaller aircraft on most if not all the flights in short-haul markets like SEA<->PDX/YVR/PSC ... that said, though, I've seen a handful of mainline jets on SEA<->PDX recently (both AS and DL)
I know DL flies at least one of their SEA-GEG-SEA trips mainline, to get people to SEA early in the day for a later connection, or back to GEG at the end of the day. In the summer, I think they actually get two mainline flights in each direction per day, quite a bit of lift between the two cities.

I don't blame them for running them, or people for flying them - it's a wonderful experience to fly to Spokane - arrive to SEA 20 minutes before boarding, hop right on and be in a rental car in 2-3 hours if there's no delays. I would bet HSR would easily be competitive here, but that's about as unlikely to happen as the Concorde doing laps between the two cities.


The value is not the convenience or the frequency of flights, but knowing that I WILL get to my destination and will do so in a reasonable amount of time. More mainline aircraft on these routes to guarantee reliability would be appreciated and I would be happy to trade it for less frequent flights and longer queues to board the plane.


Right, this is where HSR would fit in. Just like Frankfurt to Amsterdam by train is competitive, so could Seattle to many parts of WA, OR and BC. It's a pipe dream of course, and we'll likely be stuck with fly-or-drive for the foreseeable future.

SEA-PSC can have 11 RT a day between AS and DL. 22 aircraft movements, either turbo props or RJs for an airport serving about 250,000 folks a 3-4 hour drive away. Add in another 30 RT to PDX you have almost 100 aircraft movements at SEA for two cities less than 200 miles away. Add in GEG at 22 RT and you get almost 7 movements per hour at SEA for these 3 cities based on an 18 hour travel day (0600-2359). Local traffic really impacts capacity at SEA.
Once you factor in the rest of WA it really starts to get a bit inane, in my opinion: 5 RT a day for PUW, 2 for ALW, 12 for PSC, 4 for YKM and 4 for BLI, and that's not even the summer schedule. That's another 54 movements per day for just cities in WA! Then you've got another 17 daily RTs to get to YVR across AC/AS/DL..
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Old Jan 23, 20, 6:57 pm
  #42  
 
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Originally Posted by manacit View Post
I know DL flies at least one of their SEA-GEG-SEA trips mainline, to get people to SEA early in the day for a later connection, or back to GEG at the end of the day. In the summer, I think they actually get two mainline flights in each direction per day, quite a bit of lift between the two cities.

I don't blame them for running them, or people for flying them - it's a wonderful experience to fly to Spokane - arrive to SEA 20 minutes before boarding, hop right on and be in a rental car in 2-3 hours if there's no delays. I would bet HSR would easily be competitive here, but that's about as unlikely to happen as the Concorde doing laps between the two cities.



Right, this is where HSR would fit in. Just like Frankfurt to Amsterdam by train is competitive, so could Seattle to many parts of WA, OR and BC. It's a pipe dream of course, and we'll likely be stuck with fly-or-drive for the foreseeable future.



Once you factor in the rest of WA it really starts to get a bit inane, in my opinion: 5 RT a day for PUW, 2 for ALW, 12 for PSC, 4 for YKM and 4 for BLI, and that's not even the summer schedule. That's another 54 movements per day for just cities in WA! Then you've got another 17 daily RTs to get to YVR across AC/AS/DL..
YVR is different than the others as people connect to long haul on both ends of it. Someone might fly YVR-SEA-KIX on DL or SEA-YVR-DEL on AC. Obviously things like that arenít happening in PSC, YKM, GEG, etc
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Old Jan 23, 20, 7:20 pm
  #43  
 
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This is a frequent topic on the AS board.

Gate availability is particularly horrible right now because of the construction over in the N satellite terminal closing half the gates over there. They've started to use bus gates which has irked a number of AS customers, but I'd rather have that than sit on the tarmac for an hour waiting for an open gate.

The DL expansion is what really kicked off the growth and congestion here. I first moved out to SEA in 2006 from New York, and I remember thinking the airport was so easy to navigate and much less delay-prone than JFK/EWR/LGA. Now it's getting just as bad as NYC.

Long term, the state is considering alternatives like adding another airport to the south, possibly at McChord Field, or possibly expanding operations at PAE. For AS, I'd like to see them move more ex-SEA O/D traffic there. They have a bunch of QX-operated E175s serving west coast routes to LAX, SFO, PDX, etc but I bet they would be successful shifting more capacity over to Paine Field in the way of mainline 737 service.
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Old Jan 23, 20, 10:34 pm
  #44  
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PAE is a nice airport with plenty of capacity. PAE as a short-haul airport might make sense - GIG, PDX, etc. DL's A220s would fit in nicely.
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Old Jan 23, 20, 11:34 pm
  #45  
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Originally Posted by rickg523 View Post
Oh. It's our fault.
Funny though, customers demand free checked bags, larger seat pitch, and free seat selection. But those aren't just willy-nilly acceded to with no consideration of the consequences.
Well not the fault of the "average" passenger who flies a couple of times a year, it's the fault of the business travelers whose companies pay for their travel and travel almost every week on expensive tickets. They are the ones who wanted frequency over capacity so here we are.
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