De-icing (of my plane only) at SEA on Sunday when it was 44 degrees
#17
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: Delta PM, Hyatt Plat-ist, Bonvoyyyyyyed, Hilton $15 Daily F&B Receiver, Food Lion MVP
Posts: 1,203
I've noticed three trends worth pointing out:
-Turn times for aircraft (especially regionals) have gotten very (in some cases, unreasonably) short as more padding is being built into the flights themselves.
-DL has upped padding yet again on many routes for winter (though I imagine spring and summer schedules will return to the normal amount of overpadding, nothing would surprise me)
-DL does not do a very good job at most stations of having gates and ground crews ready for early arriving flights, which negates many of the benefits of overpadded scheduling (and allowing short MCTs).
#18
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Join Date: Aug 2010
Location: DCA
Programs: UA US CO AA DL FL
Posts: 50,262
I prefer short MCT's and then leave the issue of whether that is within SCT (Sensible Connection Time) to me. When I have commitments on both ends of a trip which cannot be moved, I am happy for the short MCT. When time allows, I book a longer connection. Either way, while the carrier bears the risk of a misconnect insofar as rebooking is concerned, I am happy to accept the risk (and reward) when appropriate.
#19
Join Date: Jun 2013
Programs: DL Diamond, UA Premier Gold
Posts: 2,923
Delta's padding has gotten so extreme these days that its really not so extreme and nervous flyers always have the option to book a longer connection if they would like.
I've noticed three trends worth pointing out:
-Turn times for aircraft (especially regionals) have gotten very (in some cases, unreasonably) short as more padding is being built into the flights themselves.
-DL has upped padding yet again on many routes for winter (though I imagine spring and summer schedules will return to the normal amount of overpadding, nothing would surprise me)
-DL does not do a very good job at most stations of having gates and ground crews ready for early arriving flights, which negates many of the benefits of overpadded scheduling (and allowing short MCTs).
I've noticed three trends worth pointing out:
-Turn times for aircraft (especially regionals) have gotten very (in some cases, unreasonably) short as more padding is being built into the flights themselves.
-DL has upped padding yet again on many routes for winter (though I imagine spring and summer schedules will return to the normal amount of overpadding, nothing would surprise me)
-DL does not do a very good job at most stations of having gates and ground crews ready for early arriving flights, which negates many of the benefits of overpadded scheduling (and allowing short MCTs).
#20
Join Date: Nov 2013
Location: PHX, SEA
Programs: Avis President's Club, Global Entry, Hilton/Marriott Gold. No more DL/AA status.
Posts: 4,421
Delta's padding has gotten so extreme these days that its really not so extreme and nervous flyers always have the option to book a longer connection if they would like.
I've noticed three trends worth pointing out:
-Turn times for aircraft (especially regionals) have gotten very (in some cases, unreasonably) short as more padding is being built into the flights themselves.
-DL has upped padding yet again on many routes for winter (though I imagine spring and summer schedules will return to the normal amount of overpadding, nothing would surprise me)
-DL does not do a very good job at most stations of having gates and ground crews ready for early arriving flights, which negates many of the benefits of overpadded scheduling (and allowing short MCTs).
I've noticed three trends worth pointing out:
-Turn times for aircraft (especially regionals) have gotten very (in some cases, unreasonably) short as more padding is being built into the flights themselves.
-DL has upped padding yet again on many routes for winter (though I imagine spring and summer schedules will return to the normal amount of overpadding, nothing would surprise me)
-DL does not do a very good job at most stations of having gates and ground crews ready for early arriving flights, which negates many of the benefits of overpadded scheduling (and allowing short MCTs).
#21
Join Date: May 2006
Location: KSNA/KLAX
Programs: IML GOLD, Bonvoy LTPE, WOH Globalist, AAEXPLT
Posts: 645
If anything was sitting overnight accumulating ice at below freezing, i'd imagine that there wouldn't be enough time to melt, esp. if the temp is just above freezing.. moving ice cubes from the freezer to the fridge, still might take hours to melt.
#22
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Join Date: Mar 2013
Programs: DL PM, MR Titanium/LTP, Hilton Diamond
Posts: 10,130
Delta's padding has gotten so extreme these days that its really not so extreme and nervous flyers always have the option to book a longer connection if they would like.
I've noticed three trends worth pointing out:
-Turn times for aircraft (especially regionals) have gotten very (in some cases, unreasonably) short as more padding is being built into the flights themselves.
-DL has upped padding yet again on many routes for winter (though I imagine spring and summer schedules will return to the normal amount of overpadding, nothing would surprise me)
-DL does not do a very good job at most stations of having gates and ground crews ready for early arriving flights, which negates many of the benefits of overpadded scheduling (and allowing short MCTs).
I've noticed three trends worth pointing out:
-Turn times for aircraft (especially regionals) have gotten very (in some cases, unreasonably) short as more padding is being built into the flights themselves.
-DL has upped padding yet again on many routes for winter (though I imagine spring and summer schedules will return to the normal amount of overpadding, nothing would surprise me)
-DL does not do a very good job at most stations of having gates and ground crews ready for early arriving flights, which negates many of the benefits of overpadded scheduling (and allowing short MCTs).
#23
Join Date: Dec 2017
Posts: 224
I’ve had this happen at 49 degrees. The air movement over the wing combined with the cold metal and fuel cause ice to form. Luckily for you this was a station that had de ice capabilities. If it happens in LAX or SAN sometimes the alternative is waiting for the sun to come up.
#25
Join Date: May 2011
Programs: Delta PM, Hyatt Plat-ist, Bonvoyyyyyyed, Hilton $15 Daily F&B Receiver, Food Lion MVP
Posts: 1,203
Haha, we're both RDU based and I think we've had this tangential conversation about RDU ground crew on several different threads. Nice to know there's a group of us in agreement.
#26
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 68
I don't believe it was the question per se but the tone of that it was some nefarious scheme to delay the flight. Being a former deicing instructor in a northern hub I would like to add that the 737 is notorious for cold soaked frost. This is especially apparent when the 737 has come in from a long flight and is making a quick turn. The fuel coming up from the ground or tanker hits the cold wing and you have frost. You are allowed 1/8 inch of cold soak frost on the wing. Any more and it get's sprayed. You can also get ice "rolls" where the frost has turned into water then hits an area of the wing where it is cold and reforms into a mini ice "river". Usually by the time the fueler is done and passengers loaded etc most of the frost has disappeared, but on occasion it's thick enough to require deicing. For the OP, the reason for deicing might have been underwing and yet they sprayed the top of the wing as an added caution. This happens every day in the winter in pretty much every station in the US, yes even in TPA, JAX etc. Usually at those stations it's called thermal deicing, wait for the sun to come up..
#27
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 68
Delta's padding has gotten so extreme these days that its really not so extreme and nervous flyers always have the option to book a longer connection if they would like.
I've noticed three trends worth pointing out:
-Turn times for aircraft (especially regionals) have gotten very (in some cases, unreasonably) short as more padding is being built into the flights themselves.
-DL has upped padding yet again on many routes for winter (though I imagine spring and summer schedules will return to the normal amount of overpadding, nothing would surprise me)
-DL does not do a very good job at most stations of having gates and ground crews ready for early arriving flights, which negates many of the benefits of overpadded scheduling (and allowing short MCTs).
I've noticed three trends worth pointing out:
-Turn times for aircraft (especially regionals) have gotten very (in some cases, unreasonably) short as more padding is being built into the flights themselves.
-DL has upped padding yet again on many routes for winter (though I imagine spring and summer schedules will return to the normal amount of overpadding, nothing would surprise me)
-DL does not do a very good job at most stations of having gates and ground crews ready for early arriving flights, which negates many of the benefits of overpadded scheduling (and allowing short MCTs).
#28
Join Date: Feb 2015
Location: ANC
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 1,854
Airline Captain here: The most likely reason is that somewhere on the plane, someone (be it flight crew or ramper) saw a speck of frost. It happens. Supercooled fuel in the wings and warmer outside air, or warm fuel going from the tank to the cold wings. Frost can/will form.
Any amount of frost/ice can seriously reduce lift and increase drag by high margins. It's just not worth the risk. Besides the risk to the plane itself, it's also not worth the risk to the crew. All it takes is one person to say the airplane took off contaminated and an entire career is ruined. As an Airline Captain I'm a stickler about deicing.
My advice to passengers (and I follow this advice myself with my personal travel plans) is to always allow ample room on connections. Whatever is acceptable risk to you in the summer, add half an hour minimum for winter operations. I see people daily fussing about missed connections and while it is the airline's responsibility to rebook you, try and get ahead of the game and don't book risky connections. We up front are not trying to deliberately delay the flight... we want to get the flight done so we can go home too.
Any amount of frost/ice can seriously reduce lift and increase drag by high margins. It's just not worth the risk. Besides the risk to the plane itself, it's also not worth the risk to the crew. All it takes is one person to say the airplane took off contaminated and an entire career is ruined. As an Airline Captain I'm a stickler about deicing.
My advice to passengers (and I follow this advice myself with my personal travel plans) is to always allow ample room on connections. Whatever is acceptable risk to you in the summer, add half an hour minimum for winter operations. I see people daily fussing about missed connections and while it is the airline's responsibility to rebook you, try and get ahead of the game and don't book risky connections. We up front are not trying to deliberately delay the flight... we want to get the flight done so we can go home too.
#29
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Join Date: Jul 2010
Location: Orlando, FL Area
Programs: Delta SkySponge ExtraAbsorbent, SPG Gold
Posts: 29,988
I’ve had this happen at 49 degrees. The air movement over the wing combined with the cold metal and fuel cause ice to form. Luckily for you this was a station that had de ice capabilities. If it happens in LAX or SAN sometimes the alternative is waiting for the sun to come up.
#30
Join Date: Oct 2009
Location: SAT
Programs: Delta DM, Marriott Titanium, Hilton Gold (LT), Nat EL Exec, Hertz PC
Posts: 625
My opinion is that it would have taken the pilots ten seconds to explain the why part of something that would (reasonably) seem odd to passengers, and yet OP heard / reported no such explanation announced during those extra pre-flight minutes...
The issue here appears to be information rather than judgement substitution. OP specifically supports a possible safety reasoning but without any explanation being given at the time, filled in the blanks with his / her / their own assumptions (a reasonable human response to an information gap).
Pilots explain oddities all the time.... that this is a known potential occurrence does not mean passengers are unreasonable to find it strange.
The issue here appears to be information rather than judgement substitution. OP specifically supports a possible safety reasoning but without any explanation being given at the time, filled in the blanks with his / her / their own assumptions (a reasonable human response to an information gap).
Pilots explain oddities all the time.... that this is a known potential occurrence does not mean passengers are unreasonable to find it strange.