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Can't correctly price trip with KE TPAC segment

Can't correctly price trip with KE TPAC segment

Old Dec 10, 19, 4:20 pm
  #1  
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Can't correctly price trip with KE TPAC segment

Trying to book an open jaw, SFO-PVG/SHE-SFO. I'd like to fly DL outbound and KE inbound.
DL.com offers this itinerary with a reasonable price ($800 or so): SFO-LAX-PVG/SHE-ICN-SEA-SFO, where ICN-SEA is DL metal.
I'd like the ICN-SFO KE nonstop instead, but I simply can't get either DL.com, google flights or any OTA to price it no matter what I try.

When I force this itinerary on itasoftware, it shows a price of $5404.

Is there any hope to call DL to get this priced correctly, or does this indicate that there simply isn't a fare available for this itinerary?
Since DL and KE has JV, one would assume that DL should happily put me on ICN-SFO with a similar price to ICN-SEA-SFO.
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Old Dec 10, 19, 4:32 pm
  #2  
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It might be fare class availability, possibly in combination with rules regarding combinations of fares and open jaws. To verify, you'd need to look carefully at the complete fare rules. The $5404 fare you're seeing must be FULL Y or something close.

Is the ICN-SFO operated by KE available as a DL codeshare? How about SHE-ICN-SFO?

What happens if you try the experiment of doing a dummy booking for something like SFO-ICN-SHE RT first using your travel dates and then maybe changing each date a bit in each direction to explore fare class availability?
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Old Dec 10, 19, 5:09 pm
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I had this problem in October when I went to BKK and SIN -- for some reason SIN - ICN was pricing forcing the whole ticket into Y when the other flights were in the usual corporate H fare we book into.

I had to book a separate SIN - BKK flight on KE flight numbers and ticket stock (ended up being a B fare) and then booked RDU - BKK // ICN - RDU on DL stock and flight numbers but allowed me to price it in line with corporate policies.

I posted this at the time (since moved to a new thread) but DL was weirdly pricing out more cheaply and trying to push me via NRT with an SQ segment (this was after SIN - NRT ended).

Try booking SHE - ICN as a standalone and see how it prices
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Old Dec 10, 19, 5:20 pm
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There's nothing wrong with the pricing. TPAC sector must be DL operated for the cheap fares.

SHE-SFO FARE CODE XLG03NMM

FLIGHT APPLICATION

...AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL VIA TRANSPACIFIC SECTORS ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING ANY DL FLIGHT OPERATED BY DL.
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Old Dec 10, 19, 5:25 pm
  #5  
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Is the ICN-SFO operated by KE available as a DL codeshare? How about SHE-ICN-SFO?

What happens if you try the experiment of doing a dummy booking for something like SFO-ICN-SHE RT first using your travel dates and then maybe changing each date a bit in each direction to explore fare class availability?
Yeah ICN-SFO is available as DL codeshare. SHE-ICN is not. It seems no flight between China and ICN is DL coded. DL.com would happily sell me ICN-SFO nonstop, but not in combination with a China-ICN flight.
It's the same with RT. It seems SFO-China on DL + China-ICN-SFO on KE is simply not priceable, whether ICN-SFO is KE coded or DL coded.

Originally Posted by Duke787 View Post
Try booking SHE - ICN as a standalone and see how it prices
Booking SHE-ICN as a separate ticket works, but isn't ideal since the price is higher - around $1200 which is similar as simply booking two one-ways.
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Old Dec 10, 19, 5:32 pm
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Originally Posted by xliioper View Post
There's nothing wrong with the pricing. TPAC sector must be DL operated for the cheap fares.

SHE-SFO FARE CODE XLG03NMM

FLIGHT APPLICATION

...AND THE FARE COMPONENT MUST INCLUDE TRAVEL VIA TRANSPACIFIC SECTORS ON ONE OR MORE OF THE FOLLOWING ANY DL FLIGHT OPERATED BY DL.
Ah, this is why. Nice find! But does it make sense for DL to exclude KE operated flights given the JV?
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Old Dec 10, 19, 5:33 pm
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Have you called calling DL to see whether they can put the flights you want together on a single ticket/PNR, using the DL codeshare for the ICN-SFO nonstop?
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Old Dec 10, 19, 6:16 pm
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KE has N fares from $805 roundtrip (fare basis NLX43MNK), but you can't combine these KE fares in one direction with DL fares in the other due to fare combination restrictions. You must go with the KE fares in both directions to get the desired routing on the return. KE N fares earn 100% MQM's and you'll earn very similar miles/MQD's to an $800 DL fare.


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Old Dec 10, 19, 6:50 pm
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Originally Posted by blug View Post
Ah, this is why. Nice find! But does it make sense for DL to exclude KE operated flights given the JV?
https://www.flightglobal.com/delta-a...124611.article

Delta passengers will have access to 80 destinations in Asia beyond Korean Air's Seoul Incheon hub under the partnership, he says.

China, however, will not be included in the joint venture, says Bastian.
probably because DL has partnership with China Eastern

same thing for UA+ANA JV, their transpacific JV doesnt include china
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Old Dec 10, 19, 7:02 pm
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
Have you called calling DL to see whether they can put the flights you want together on a single ticket/PNR, using the DL codeshare for the ICN-SFO nonstop?
Not yet, it doesn't look promising based on the fare rule above, but I'll try it once and report back. HUCA is probably not useful in this case.
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Old Dec 10, 19, 7:05 pm
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Originally Posted by paperwastage View Post
https://www.flightglobal.com/delta-a...124611.article



probably because DL has partnership with China Eastern

same thing for UA+ANA JV, their transpacific JV doesnt include china
Oh, does "JV doesn't include china" mean "DL and KE don't share revenue and cost on the TPAC segment of a trip, if that trip is between US and China"? I didn't know that.
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Old Dec 10, 19, 7:17 pm
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Originally Posted by blug View Post
Oh, does "JV doesn't include china" mean "DL and KE don't share revenue and cost on the TPAC segment of a trip, if that trip is between US and China"? I didn't know that.
difficult question to answer without knowing the specifics of the JV (confidential/proprietary)

but probably the case, given DL explicitly forces you to fly their metal trans-pacific when going to china
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Old Dec 10, 19, 7:38 pm
  #13  
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Originally Posted by blug View Post
Trying to book an open jaw, SFO-PVG/SHE-SFO. I'd like to fly DL outbound and KE inbound.
DL.com offers this itinerary with a reasonable price ($800 or so): SFO-LAX-PVG/SHE-ICN-SEA-SFO, where ICN-SEA is DL metal.
I'd like the ICN-SFO KE nonstop instead, but I simply can't get either DL.com, google flights or any OTA to price it no matter what I try.

When I force this itinerary on itasoftware, it shows a price of $5404.

Is there any hope to call DL to get this priced correctly, or does this indicate that there simply isn't a fare available for this itinerary?
Since DL and KE has JV, one would assume that DL should happily put me on ICN-SFO with a similar price to ICN-SEA-SFO.

I had a similar issue previously on a J ticket with CI segments. I could price it at $7300~ but during checkout it failed every time. I called, read the segments, fare classes I see, and they forced it through and were able to get the pricing aligned. I would suggest HUCA till you find an agent willing to take extra time with you. If you are willing to spend this much on a ticket, I have found Delta more than willing to take the time to get the pricing fixed.
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Old Dec 11, 19, 4:16 pm
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Called DL and spoke with a rep. No luck. I told the rep the specific flights I want, but she was unable to construct and price this itinerary. She talked to her supervisor, the supervisor was also unable, and advised me to call KE to book
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Old Dec 11, 19, 4:29 pm
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Originally Posted by ryandc99 View Post
I had a similar issue previously on a J ticket with CI segments. I could price it at $7300~ but during checkout it failed every time. I called, read the segments, fare classes I see, and they forced it through and were able to get the pricing aligned. I would suggest HUCA till you find an agent willing to take extra time with you. If you are willing to spend this much on a ticket, I have found Delta more than willing to take the time to get the pricing fixed.
OP is looking at an $800 coach ticket, not a biz one. I doubt they are going to bend any rules for that. It would be helpful to know why OP seems insistent on booking DL marketed tickets when the KE marketed tickets will earn virtually the same amount and provide the one-stop routing desired on the return for an $800 price tag. The fare rules on the DL marketed tickets are quite clear -- only DL metal over the pacific (DL marketed is not sufficient).

Last edited by xliioper; Dec 11, 19 at 5:04 pm
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