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Largest US flight attendant union targets Delta cabin crews

Largest US flight attendant union targets Delta cabin crews

Old Nov 2, 2019, 5:55 pm
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Largest US flight attendant union targets Delta cabin crews

Not sure if this belongs here or will just be controversial, but we do post about other things related to the Delta business (i.e., refinery). I'm sure most of us saw the kind of condescending "video game" anti-union poster in the Delta hallways. Most of the FAs I've interacted with haven't been supportive of unionizing, some I've even seen wearing pins with that opinion on it (not sure if within policy or not, but given the hallway posters, I doubt management has any problem with it.) I flew the NWA days, and I would take the current cadre of Delta FAs over any other airline that I have the frequency of choice.

https://www.cnbc.com/2019/11/01/larg...-at-delta.html
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Old Nov 2, 2019, 6:39 pm
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There is a pervasive feeling that DL management does not listen to DL employees, which certainly could be a straw that leads to unionization, but DL treats their employees really well in other areas (especially when compared to peers) and I think that this heavily outweighs the lack of listening. I don't see unionization anytime soon.
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Old Nov 2, 2019, 11:27 pm
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NWA was heavily (all?) unionized and had awful labor relations. But there's were always more DL vs NWA FAs, plus now all the newbies (apparently 40% of the FAs are post merger) so I don't think it's likely either
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 6:14 am
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One could argue in this day and age unions don't have a place, but that is a different discussion. My reason for saying that is there any hard evidence of a need for a union, unfair or dangerous working conditions? Or is this just a ploy to get more compensation for less work?

In other words what is the union selling?
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 6:28 am
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Originally Posted by defrosted
My reason for saying that is there any hard evidence of a need for a union, unfair or dangerous working conditions? Or is this just a ploy to get more compensation for less work?

In other words what is the union selling?
wow, you're so close to getting it
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 6:29 am
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I mean you could just flip that around and say that any anti-union campaign is a ploy to get more work for less pay.
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 6:30 am
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68
wow, you're so close to getting it
Care to elaborate?
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 6:52 am
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Maybe I'm missing something but exactly what is so horrible at DL that the FAs feel like they need to unionize? I have friends at DL and they seem quite happy with their jobs. They are compensated on par with the rest of the industry. Their benefits are top-notch. They get annual employee profitability bonuses. They have the best technology or any of the legacy carriers at their disposal. I hope the FAs realize that the moment they unionize a lot is going to change....and not necessarily for the better.

As a pax, unions always concern me. In industries where I work there is an appreciable difference between union and non-union companies. Consumers tend to get better service and have better experiences with non-union shops but your results may vary.
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 7:28 am
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Not a union fan but in the end it is between the company and employees. If or when it affects me I will consider other options. I fly Delta almost all the time because it is my favorite if it changes for the worse I will look at others. I am only loyal for selfish reasons.
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 7:40 am
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Originally Posted by defrosted
Or is this just a ploy to get more compensation for less work?
Why would workers trying to advocate for themselves and negotiate a better package be a "ploy"? Isn't organizing and advocating just another way of operating within capitalism?

It seems like when an executive negotiates a better package it's no problem but when rank and file workers want more money/time off, etc then they are considered greedy.
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 7:53 am
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Originally Posted by jdrtravel
Why would workers trying to advocate for themselves and negotiate a better package be a "ploy"? Isn't organizing and advocating just another way of operating within capitalism?

It seems like when an executive negotiates a better package it's no problem but when rank and file workers want more money/time off, etc then they are considered greedy.

I am neutral on unions one way or the other. I tend to think that things adapt no matter the circumstance. I think the question here is this - is DL unfair to them? If the union is selling people on "you work too much and get paid too little" then they are in fact selling more pay for less work. And it is a sales job - unions introduce things like seniority and rigid interactions between employee and employer. This is what the union "takes" from the equation besides union dues.

I guess I would ask this question - is DL really unfair to their employees? I don't work for them so I have no idea. If they are, they will reach a tipping point where people will unionize. If not then this is a lot of hot air and nothing will come of it.
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 7:57 am
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I think DL is more than fair and open with their FAs....didn’t they just actually remove seats on planes so that FAs had more space? You’d never see AA, I mean US Airways, do that.
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 8:18 am
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Originally Posted by jdrtravel
Why would workers trying to advocate for themselves and negotiate a better package be a "ploy"? Isn't organizing and advocating just another way of operating within capitalism?

It seems like when an executive negotiates a better package it's no problem but when rank and file workers want more money/time off, etc then they are considered greedy.
By definition I think it is a ploy either way, but I understand your point because of the connotation. My question is more to the reason behind it. If on average the current compensation package is fair in the industry (and in comparison to unionized workers in same industry) and there is no unsafe or unfair practices, then what is the potential benefit to unionize? The union must have some selling feature and I am curious as to their motivations.

Your analogy is somewhat flawed in that one person is free to negotiate better compensation at any time. The question is banding together to hold a company hostage can do serious damage and end up hurting the average worker in the long run, especially workers that don't agree with the union action and get dragged along for the ride. In addition it can purely be greed regardless if it is an executive or rank and file.

Anyway I do see your point, and perhaps I should have a little more of an open mind about unions. But in my defense I was asking what the motivations were. Is it simply for a "better package" or are there some weak points the union is capitalizing on?

I read the article and it seems they don't really touch on the why, other than to guarantee the profit sharing, because managment could take it away. I think that is a big "if" and would seem foolish to unionize based on that reason alone. Again hence my trying to understand what the union is selling.

Make no mistake I get why Delta would be against it, just trying to understand the other side.

Originally Posted by FlyingBeanCounter
I am neutral on unions one way or the other. I tend to think that things adapt no matter the circumstance. I think the question here is this - is DL unfair to them? If the union is selling people on "you work too much and get paid too little" then they are in fact selling more pay for less work. And it is a sales job - unions introduce things like seniority and rigid interactions between employee and employer. This is what the union "takes" from the equation besides union dues.

I guess I would ask this question - is DL really unfair to their employees? I don't work for them so I have no idea. If they are, they will reach a tipping point where people will unionize. If not then this is a lot of hot air and nothing will come of it.
Exactly.
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 8:31 am
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Originally Posted by defrosted
Your analogy is somewhat flawed in that one person is free to negotiate better compensation at any time. The question is banding together to hold a company hostage can do serious damage and end up hurting the average worker in the long run, especially workers that don't agree with the union action and get dragged along for the ride. In addition it can purely be greed regardless if it is an executive or rank and file.

I certainly don't think that unions can't do wrong or cause more problems than they solve. I'm just saying that I don't see anything inherently wrong with workers organizing to try to get more money or work less. And yes, technically any worker is free to try and negotiate better compensation, but when you are part of a massive workforce and your compensation is determined by a standardized system, this is not really possible.

Also, I understand that unions can be corrupt, but I don't think that means they should be thrown out. Our democracy is prone to all sorts of corruption, but we would never say we should do away with it, we try to make it better.
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Old Nov 3, 2019, 8:50 am
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Originally Posted by jdrtravel
I certainly don't think that unions can't do wrong or cause more problems than they solve. I'm just saying that I don't see anything inherently wrong with workers organizing to try to get more money or work less. And yes, technically any worker is free to try and negotiate better compensation, but when you are part of a massive workforce and your compensation is determined by a standardized system, this is not really possible.

Also, I understand that unions can be corrupt, but I don't think that means they should be thrown out. Our democracy is prone to all sorts of corruption, but we would never say we should do away with it, we try to make it better.
I agree nothing inherently wrong with anyone trying to better themselves. We all want to be paid more for doing less. But if the reality is they already get better than average compensation and conditions, then it starts to look like greed versus betterment.

Again not necessarily trying to debate unions, more as specific to Delta what benefits is the union trying to sell to the Delta employees? Anecdotal evidence on my part seems to say Delta employees seem happier than their unionized counterparts.

I think we can agree unions can have their place, and like anything can be improved.
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