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DL 767-300 decompression (DL 2353 9/18)

DL 767-300 decompression (DL 2353 9/18)

Old Sep 19, 2019, 11:39 am
  #31  
 
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Originally Posted by Bear96
Exceedingly few. How many sizeable towns are at 12,000'?
La Paz, Bolivia is at 12k feet in altitude and has 2.3 million inhabitants in its metro area.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 11:41 am
  #32  
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Originally Posted by Bear96
Exceedingly few. How many sizeable towns are at 12,000'?
La Paz, Bolivia. Elev. 11,942 ft., Pop. 757,184 (2012).
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 11:50 am
  #33  
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Originally Posted by Bear96
Exceedingly few. How many sizeable towns are at 12,000'?
IIRC, Leadville, CO is the highest incorporated town in the US at 10,152'. It has about 2800 people.

But looking outside of the US it's easy to find large populations at altitude.
La Rinconada, Peru: 16,732 with ~50,000 people
Nagqu, Tibet: 14,800 with ~42,000 people
Juliaca, Peru: 12,546 with ~216,000 people
Cusco, Peru:11,152 with ~428,000 people
El Alto, Bolivia: 13,620 with ~846,000 people

Quite a few more of varying sizes: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/List_of_highest_cities
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 12:19 pm
  #34  
 
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At altitude, effects of hypoxia are measurable in just a few seconds, HOWEVER, that doesn't render you dead/unable to do anything.

For a good example of how you get 'loopy' at altitude, go into youtube and search for "Kalitta Hypoxia" for the ATC recordings of a Kalitta flight that decompressed without the pilots fully grasping what was going on. Back at 16,000 or so, you'll hear how much more coherent the pilots are vs the 30,000 decompression
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 1:50 pm
  #35  
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Originally Posted by rylan
Interesting that they were flying a 767 on that short of a route also.
Yeah, quite a down-gauge from the L-1011's they used to use.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 3:06 pm
  #36  
 
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Originally Posted by WillSkiGT
Even 14-15k feet isn't as bad.

If you stay at 14k feet long term, hypoxia is possible, but useful consciousness is ~30 mins or more.

The scary thing is explosive decompression at max cruise altitude. Useful consciousness is ~5 seconds. If you aren't quick with oxygen mask or at least the autopilot altitude selector, you're toast.
I mean there are 54 peaks in Colorado >14k ft which people climb without oxygen. Useful consciousness there can be forever, depending on the person.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 4:24 pm
  #37  
 
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The terrible tv news report did not even mention the aircraft type, Boeing 767. Anyone know how old is the aircraft?
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 5:48 pm
  #38  
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Originally Posted by Peter Semler
The terrible tv news report did not even mention the aircraft type, Boeing 767. Anyone know how old is the aircraft?
https://flightaware.com/resources/registration/N1608

4/24/2000???
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 7:03 pm
  #39  
 
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Originally Posted by Bear96
Exceedingly few. How many sizeable towns are at 12,000'?
Plenty of people in Peru and Bolivia live well above 12000 feet.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 7:17 pm
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Originally Posted by WillSkiGT
Even 14-15k feet isn't as bad.

If you stay at 14k feet long term, hypoxia is possible, but useful consciousness is ~30 mins or more.

The scary thing is explosive decompression at max cruise altitude. Useful consciousness is ~5 seconds. If you aren't quick with oxygen mask or at least the autopilot altitude selector, you're toast.

As you likely know, at max cruise altitude (above 35k ft.) one of the pilots SHOULD be wearing an O2 mask full time as per FAR 91.211. It's a well know fact that this is one of the most disregarded rules in the aviation industry. But this episode is there to remind us why that rules exists....
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 7:20 pm
  #41  
 
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Originally Posted by vitira
I mean there are 54 peaks in Colorado >14k ft which people climb without oxygen. Useful consciousness there can be forever, depending on the person.
Yes, but you don't go from 8k to 14k in a couple of seconds. Also people who climb up peaks like that are likely a bit fitter then your average passenger. Thirdly there is an FAR on O2. Simply stated -As a pilot you have to use supplemental oxygen if you fly more than 30 minutes at cabin pressure altitudes of 12,500 feet or higher. And that at cabin altitudes above 14,000 feet pilots must use oxygen at all times. And that above 15,000 feet each occupant of the aircraft must be provided supplemental oxygen. All of this is spelled out in Federal Aviation Regulations Part 91.211.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 7:28 pm
  #42  
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Coming from someone who works on those parts on a daily basis, those oxygen canisters don't last very long.
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 7:46 pm
  #43  
 
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Originally Posted by AvalancheDog
The important thing to note: the entire system - pilots, plane, FAA, etc. worked. I'm just 'glad' that so many pax had the levity to pull out their phones to get those all-important pix for clix.
I read a story today about a teenager who got stabbed and a significant number of people stood by and filmed him bleeding out instead of calling 911. I worry that this will be the demise of our society, and it is why I absolutely insist on people following all the take-off and landing rules. I can't be sure that the jamoke next to me is going to get out of the way in an emergency, or stop to facebook live the whole thing
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Old Sep 19, 2019, 7:49 pm
  #44  
 
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Originally Posted by timfountain
As you likely know, at max cruise altitude (above 35k ft.) one of the pilots SHOULD be wearing an O2 mask full time as per FAR 91.211. It's a well know fact that this is one of the most disregarded rules in the aviation industry. But this episode is there to remind us why that rules exists....
except that the one pilot need not wear and use an oxygen mask while at or below flight level 410 if there are two pilots at the controls and each pilot has a quick-donning type of oxygen mask that can be placed on the face with one hand from the ready position within 5 seconds, supplying oxygen and properly secured and sealed.


​​​​​​​That being said I'm surprised that despite the above this is rather a strict rule and the next paragraph does require one pilot to wear the mask while the other is out of their seat (e.g. during a crew member change or lav break)
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Old Sep 20, 2019, 8:37 am
  #45  
 
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Originally Posted by vitira
I mean … there are 54 peaks in Colorado >14k ft which people climb without oxygen. Useful consciousness there can be forever, depending on the person.
Climbing a peak is not the same as sudden decompression. Your body has time to acclimatize when you are climbing a mountain. When the cabin of an aircraft loses pressurization, your body effectively is going from 6-8k feet to whatever the external altitude is within 1-2 seconds.

Originally Posted by DenverBrian
Some Coloradans live every day at over 10,000 feet. Trail Ridge Road in Rocky Mountain National Park is at 12,000 feet. @:-)
Again, those people are acclimatized, not experiencing a rapid decompression. The human body can acclimatize up to ~8,000m, but it takes months to achieve this. A sudden decompression to 14k feet gives around 30 mins of useful consciousness.

Originally Posted by timfountain
As you likely know, at max cruise altitude (above 35k ft.) one of the pilots SHOULD be wearing an O2 mask full time as per FAR 91.211. It's a well know fact that this is one of the most disregarded rules in the aviation industry. But this episode is there to remind us why that rules exists....
There's an exemption for quick deploying masks. Really, the most sinister type of decompression is when there is a bleed valve issue or something similar, where the pilots slowly lose situational awareness due to hypoxia. This is what killed Payne Stewart and what happened with the Helios flight in 2005. The pilots will set an altitude in the autopilot and slowly become hypoxic, which makes it even harder for them to identify that there is an issue.
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