Choose your friends well (A Skymiles Redemption Lesson)
Aug 22, 2019, 2:51 pm
#16
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Aug 22, 2019, 2:56 pm
#17
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Paradise
Posts: 1,617
It honestly just sounds like a mistake on your friend's part. Perhaps when she realized she needed to make a change, the time difference meant it was late night in the US and she didn't want to bother disturbing you, so contacted Delta directly. If she's never done anything malicious to you before and she was close enough to you that you sprung for a ticket, I would take her explanation at face value and chalk it up to her inexperience.
Ideally you can also let her know there was a additional cost to you, that she needs to reimburse you for; perhaps on a payment plan if necessary. Most reasonable friends would agree quickly.
Ideally you can also let her know there was a additional cost to you, that she needs to reimburse you for; perhaps on a payment plan if necessary. Most reasonable friends would agree quickly.
Aug 22, 2019, 3:15 pm
#18
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: DL Scattered Smothered Covered Medallion, Some hotel & car stuff, Kroger Plus Card
Posts: 10,745
I dont care if they were going on a mission, humanitarian effort, or their dead grandmothers funeral. My opinion simply states that OP tried to do something nice for someone and I would have told my friend to pack sand(actually the people I call friends would not ask me for something like this). Not only did OP pay for the flight, but also cost them around the monetary value of another $540 they werent expecting. I get that they probably had no idea what they are doing, but this "friend" doesnt have boundaries.
Your earlier post made assumptions that:
1. Friend could not afford ticket to Africa.
2. Going to Africa was a thing friend *wanted* to do.
In order to draw the conclusion that:
3. Friend should stay home and work more so she could just pay for her own ticket.
Your reply, quoted here, further assumes that:
4. Friend asked for OP to buy the ticket for her.
None of these assumptions (1, 2, or 4) are based on anything OP has stated.
Moreover, none of those assumptions nor the conclusion have anything to do with the issue at hand of Friend being able to change the ticket and spend more of OP's miles without his actual authorization.
If your opinion is that you don't like buying award tickets for others, fine, just say that. But please own it as your own preference and opinion, and not a judgment of how OP or his friend should live their lives or manage their financial priorities.
Aug 22, 2019, 5:53 pm
#19
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1MM *G (recovered GS), SPG Nothing, Hilton Nothing, AA Nothing
Posts: 895
A few points.
She didn’t ask - I offered the original ticket.
I personally believe that Delta did state the fare/fee/mile difference. Whether friend heard or understood is totally beside the point. She should have asked before making any change, ESPECIALLY if she was uncertain/inexperienced.
Delta (and most if not all call center agents everywhere) follow a script. Sure sometimes they may skip a minor detail or ad lib but not the key terms of the exchange.
We we were in the same time zone and she could easily have texted me. She explicitly chose not to do that.
This is was not the first incidence of actual or possible dishonesty.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
She didn’t ask - I offered the original ticket.
I personally believe that Delta did state the fare/fee/mile difference. Whether friend heard or understood is totally beside the point. She should have asked before making any change, ESPECIALLY if she was uncertain/inexperienced.
Delta (and most if not all call center agents everywhere) follow a script. Sure sometimes they may skip a minor detail or ad lib but not the key terms of the exchange.
We we were in the same time zone and she could easily have texted me. She explicitly chose not to do that.
This is was not the first incidence of actual or possible dishonesty.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Aug 22, 2019, 6:20 pm
#20
Join Date: Aug 2007
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 1,079
My view is that the friend didn’t know she was incurring extra “miles” on the original tickets. They thought they were just changing the ticket and were ok to incur the extra cost which they thought they were covering themselves.
Clearly delta could be more stringent and add extra steps in the verification process for any changes. On my front, I do many tickets on behalf of family members. They haven’t changed their tickets themselves when needed but rather asked me to handle them when needed which I then work through. I feel Delta does some effort of validating the person asking for the changes but my reaction is typically that I don’t need more red tape to be validated. I guess I may feel differently if I had experienced the OP’s situation but not sure if there is an easy answer.
Maybe it goes with the territory that if you want to gift a ticket, you should take responsibility and let the recipient know that they need to work through you if they want to do a change
Clearly delta could be more stringent and add extra steps in the verification process for any changes. On my front, I do many tickets on behalf of family members. They haven’t changed their tickets themselves when needed but rather asked me to handle them when needed which I then work through. I feel Delta does some effort of validating the person asking for the changes but my reaction is typically that I don’t need more red tape to be validated. I guess I may feel differently if I had experienced the OP’s situation but not sure if there is an easy answer.
Maybe it goes with the territory that if you want to gift a ticket, you should take responsibility and let the recipient know that they need to work through you if they want to do a change
Aug 22, 2019, 6:20 pm
#21
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
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A few points.
She didn’t ask - I offered the original ticket.
I personally believe that Delta did state the fare/fee/mile difference. Whether friend heard or understood is totally beside the point. She should have asked before making any change, ESPECIALLY if she was uncertain/inexperienced.
No, the ticket is theirs. Regardless of who buys the ticket, the ticket belongs to named passenger.
Delta (and most if not all call center agents everywhere) follow a script. Sure sometimes they may skip a minor detail or ad lib but not the key terms of the exchange.
We we were in the same time zone and she could easily have texted me. She explicitly chose not to do that.
This is was not the first incidence of actual or possible dishonesty.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
She didn’t ask - I offered the original ticket.
I personally believe that Delta did state the fare/fee/mile difference. Whether friend heard or understood is totally beside the point. She should have asked before making any change, ESPECIALLY if she was uncertain/inexperienced.
No, the ticket is theirs. Regardless of who buys the ticket, the ticket belongs to named passenger.
Delta (and most if not all call center agents everywhere) follow a script. Sure sometimes they may skip a minor detail or ad lib but not the key terms of the exchange.
We we were in the same time zone and she could easily have texted me. She explicitly chose not to do that.
This is was not the first incidence of actual or possible dishonesty.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Aug 22, 2019, 6:43 pm
#22
Join Date: Mar 2018
Posts: 111
A few points.
She didn’t ask - I offered the original ticket.
I personally believe that Delta did state the fare/fee/mile difference. Whether friend heard or understood is totally beside the point. She should have asked before making any change, ESPECIALLY if she was uncertain/inexperienced.
Delta (and most if not all call center agents everywhere) follow a script. Sure sometimes they may skip a minor detail or ad lib but not the key terms of the exchange.
We we were in the same time zone and she could easily have texted me. She explicitly chose not to do that.
This is was not the first incidence of actual or possible dishonesty.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
She didn’t ask - I offered the original ticket.
I personally believe that Delta did state the fare/fee/mile difference. Whether friend heard or understood is totally beside the point. She should have asked before making any change, ESPECIALLY if she was uncertain/inexperienced.
Delta (and most if not all call center agents everywhere) follow a script. Sure sometimes they may skip a minor detail or ad lib but not the key terms of the exchange.
We we were in the same time zone and she could easily have texted me. She explicitly chose not to do that.
This is was not the first incidence of actual or possible dishonesty.
Fool me twice, shame on me.
Aug 22, 2019, 6:45 pm
#23
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Oct 2011
Location: ATL
Programs: DL Scattered Smothered Covered Medallion, Some hotel & car stuff, Kroger Plus Card
Posts: 10,745
The issue is simply did they defraud you. Sounds like this is very possible. If that's the case then chalk up the miles as cost of lesson and friendship should be over. I wouldn't push to get "paid" back. If they're this scummy, I wouldn't put it past them to report you to DL. In that case you become the wrong one in DL eyes as you've violated the program terms as you didn't report it as unauthorized and let new ticket stand.
The ticket may belong to OP's friend, but the rest of his miles surely do not. After he discovered the additional payment, he called DL to figure out what happened and made a conscious decision to not reverse it. At that point OP has agreed to the transaction (whether he liked it or not is separate; it sounds like DL did provide the option to cancel everything).
The two at-fault parties here are:
1. OP's friend for using miles that were not hers, either intentionally or not, and,
2. DL agent and/or policies for not properly confirming OP's authorization to redeem more miles
I'm pretty forgiving of my friends; that's kind of the point of being friends. But if OP is now noticing a pattern, then yes, perhaps it's time to think about how much he trusts this particular friend. At the same time, I'm sure OP has other wonderful friends. I would hope this situation makes him more cautious, but ultimately does not reduce his kindness or generosity toward those he cares about.
Aug 22, 2019, 7:31 pm
#24
Original Poster
Join Date: May 2006
Location: IAD
Programs: UA 1MM *G (recovered GS), SPG Nothing, Hilton Nothing, AA Nothing
Posts: 895
No not a romantic thing at all lol. (but not an unreasonable question). More an acquaintance than friend tbh.
Regarding fraud or confusion/inexperience the bottom line for me is that either way she should have asked before making the change.
Regarding fraud or confusion/inexperience the bottom line for me is that either way she should have asked before making the change.
Aug 22, 2019, 7:46 pm
#25
Join Date: Sep 2013
Location: Paradise
Posts: 1,617
I am curious about this. In your original post you said the return flight was changed 2 days before departure. That would imply your friend was in South Africa at the time; were you also in Africa? Otherwise I don't see how you both were in the same time zone.
This is was not the first incidence of actual or possible dishonesty. More an acquaintance than friend tbh.
Aug 22, 2019, 8:08 pm
#26
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I am curious about this. In your original post you said the return flight was changed 2 days before departure. That would imply your friend was in South Africa at the time; were you also in Africa? Otherwise I don't see how you both were in the same time zone.
Personally I label acquaintances as people I see every other month; whether in a social/club setting or not. Outside of their name, I know next to nothing about their personal life. I'm impressed she knows your birthday and email.
Personally I label acquaintances as people I see every other month; whether in a social/club setting or not. Outside of their name, I know next to nothing about their personal life. I'm impressed she knows your birthday and email.
Parts of Africa and parts of Europe would be in the same time zone.
Many people wouldn't be so generous as to give a plane ticket to Africa to an acquaintance, especial after one or more previous instances of "actual or possible dishonesty."
Many people wouldn't be so generous as to give a plane ticket to Africa to an acquaintance, especial after one or more previous instances of "actual or possible dishonesty."
Aug 22, 2019, 8:23 pm
#27
Join Date: Feb 2012
Location: West LA
Programs: DL DM
Posts: 957
The only people who get my miles are my parents and my sister. My brother was on the list, until his dink(physicians) household got me a $25 Amazon giftcard for my birthday. You can buy your own tickets, bro.
Aug 22, 2019, 9:50 pm
#28
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Dec 2003
Location: LAX
Posts: 10,908
Looks like many here value 50k dl miles more than friendship.
Smth seriously messed up on this board maybe 50k united but delta???
Smth seriously messed up on this board maybe 50k united but delta???
Aug 22, 2019, 10:31 pm
#29
FlyerTalk Evangelist
Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,042
In what world is OP at all in the wrong?
The ticket may belong to OP's friend, but the rest of his miles surely do not. After he discovered the additional payment, he called DL to figure out what happened and made a conscious decision to not reverse it. At that point OP has agreed to the transaction (whether he liked it or not is separate; it sounds like DL did provide the option to cancel everything).
The two at-fault parties here are:
1. OP's friend for using miles that were not hers, either intentionally or not, and,
2. DL agent and/or policies for not properly confirming OP's authorization to redeem more miles
I'm pretty forgiving of my friends; that's kind of the point of being friends. But if OP is now noticing a pattern, then yes, perhaps it's time to think about how much he trusts this particular friend. At the same time, I'm sure OP has other wonderful friends. I would hope this situation makes him more cautious, but ultimately does not reduce his kindness or generosity toward those he cares about.
The ticket may belong to OP's friend, but the rest of his miles surely do not. After he discovered the additional payment, he called DL to figure out what happened and made a conscious decision to not reverse it. At that point OP has agreed to the transaction (whether he liked it or not is separate; it sounds like DL did provide the option to cancel everything).
The two at-fault parties here are:
1. OP's friend for using miles that were not hers, either intentionally or not, and,
2. DL agent and/or policies for not properly confirming OP's authorization to redeem more miles
I'm pretty forgiving of my friends; that's kind of the point of being friends. But if OP is now noticing a pattern, then yes, perhaps it's time to think about how much he trusts this particular friend. At the same time, I'm sure OP has other wonderful friends. I would hope this situation makes him more cautious, but ultimately does not reduce his kindness or generosity toward those he cares about.
Aug 22, 2019, 11:03 pm
#30
Join Date: Dec 2014
Posts: 1,880
The same thing happened to me this past year. I booked a flight for a friend using miles; it was a really good deal (11k for a transcon flight) when all of the cash flights were insane.
The day of travel I got an email that 50k miles had been deducted from my account. Forgetting that my friend was traveling that day, my first reaction was that my account had been compromised. Luckily I acted quickly and immediately called Delta and they were able to roll back the change to the original flight. When I asked, my friend was really surprised and told me that she changed her flight but was never told there would be an additional cost. Perhaps the agent didn't disclose the fare difference or my friend didn't understand / wasn't paying attention, but I have no reason to believe she would have intentionally made the change knowing it would cost more.
In my case, everything worked out alright. But this has me wondering... if (like the OP) I hadn't been able to roll back the changes, who should be responsible? If the account holder doesn't authorize the use of miles, isn't that on Delta for not correctly authenticating the account holder's identity?
The day of travel I got an email that 50k miles had been deducted from my account. Forgetting that my friend was traveling that day, my first reaction was that my account had been compromised. Luckily I acted quickly and immediately called Delta and they were able to roll back the change to the original flight. When I asked, my friend was really surprised and told me that she changed her flight but was never told there would be an additional cost. Perhaps the agent didn't disclose the fare difference or my friend didn't understand / wasn't paying attention, but I have no reason to believe she would have intentionally made the change knowing it would cost more.
In my case, everything worked out alright. But this has me wondering... if (like the OP) I hadn't been able to roll back the changes, who should be responsible? If the account holder doesn't authorize the use of miles, isn't that on Delta for not correctly authenticating the account holder's identity?
Last edited by rucksack; Aug 22, 2019 at 11:10 pm