spongenotbob

HDQDD

So you think it would have been somehow better for the pax (and also the down line pax in MIA) to just return to the terminal and cancel? Personally I would prefer the choice to either get off or stick it out, and it sounds like that's what DL provided (or at least say they did). Bad situation all around. I'm sure DL wasn't planning on an 8 hour ramp hold but then again I'm guessing you've never flown through JFK in the summer.

JFK is the only airport where I've experienced taxi times over 3 hours more than once and interestingly none were on DL. Once was on a UAX J41. Had to shutdown one engine (which included the AC) for a while so we wouldn't burn too much fuel. That was quite miserable. Pilot wasn't sure we could get back to a gate due to all the ramp congestion so we stuck it out. Back in those days there was no 3 hour rule.

Also the Jetblue Valentines day meltdown (or freeze actually) back in 2007. That event eventually led to the 3 hour rule.

ekozie

DL3 went back to a gate yesterday after just over an hour of taxiing. I was told secondhand that the crew announced they spent so much fuel taxiing that they needed to refuel.

I have a hard time believing that with every aircraft at JFK having 2+ hour taxis last night, they forgot to "top off" just one of them. The armchair mechanic in me guesses that the plane had an issue with one of the internal fuel transfer pumps or a crossfeed valve that's not required by the MEL, they were taxiing with only one engine (thus using fuel from only one wing tank) and the weight and balance got all jacked up. If the situation was, in fact, something like this, I totally understand that it's probably a little much to explain to a plane full of passengers already running late at 1am.

As for the self-loading cargo - they were offered water and snacks during the delay, and I was told that the door was opened when they went back to the gate (for well over an hour) but they didn't allow anyone to get off. It then took over half an hour for ground crew to show up for pushback.


As for 2385 - none of this is adding up. Based on everything I can gather from several tracking websites, it looks like the flight was initially delayed about two hours, and boarded from a hardstand from the get-go. It looks like they re-opened the door about two hours later, just before 8pm (not sure if it taxied around during this time) back at a hardstand and was there for about 3 hours. Both twitter timestamps are from after the door closed again around 11pm, so it's tough to tell exactly when the police were called, but there wasn't any significant delay (for JFK) getting to the runway after the second pushback. In no way was this 8 hours on the tarmac - more like 5.

Between the claim that the captain was frustrated waiting for ground crew and DL3 waiting for ground crew, I'm willing to bet the tipping point requiring police came while waiting for the second pushback, ironically likely delaying the flight even further. Still, this was 5 hours at most and I'm inclined to believe that Delta's side that they passed out water and snacks - the whole thing adds up to sensationalism and fake news.

ekozie

Found some additional details poking around twitter and timestamps.

Boarding started (via bus) at 4:45. Door closed at 5:45. Door closed for the second time at 11:10. That's under 5.5 hours total.

Water and snacks were offered starting after 2 hours, per SOP. Passengers were offered the opportunity off the plane, also per SOP. Flight attendants aren't rez agents, so obviously they can't make any rebooking promises.

Sounds like captain was ready for ground crew to push back around 9:40 (or earlier). Police on the scene by 10:26. Definitely a meltdown with ground crew, but the delay could have probably been ~45 minutes shorter if there was no need for police intervention if ground staff were able to get there by then.

All the videos were posted during ramp taxi, so none of these passengers had their phones in airplane mode .

edit: Mods, can we change to title to indicate it was NOT an 8 hour ramp delay?

flyerCO

Flight arrived 7 hours 14 minutes late. Close enough to 8 hour delay.

ekozie

But didn't board for the first two hours - not an 8 hour tarmac delay.

DLASflyer

flyerCO

If we're playing semantics, neither title, nor OP say it was 8hr tarmac delay. Simply 8hrs on a remote stand.

flyerCO

What counts is if the passengers were free to get up and off the plane. Simply being at the jetbridge doesn't matter. It must be connected and door open for passengers to leave.

SJC ORD LDR

Just more evidence on how bad DL's operations are at JFK. You don't see stories of this at any other hub on a semi-regular basis. Only JFK.

flyerCO

Think it speaks more about JFK in general than DL.

ryw

I'm curious what happens if you voluntarily choose to de-plane in a situation like this. Is DL obligated to still get you to your final destination by rebooking you on another flight, ala IRROPS? Or do you give up your reservation when you de-plane (and any DL assistance re-booking is technically just a good customer service gesture, but not required on their part).

worldspan

Just another air travel horror stay that keeps me off airplanes!

jdrtravel

Given that length of delay you would, at minimum, be able to get a refund.

btonkid12345

No. DL has to rebook you if a flight is delayed greater than 60 minutes (some agents will say 90 minutes), or if minimum connect time won't be met somewhere along the itinerary, or if there is a cancellation. This is in the contract of carriage and is not simply a good customer service gesture - it is required once the customer requests it.