AJDelvarno

If I fly DTW-ICN on DL, can I fly ICN-SPN (Saipan) on Asiana after just a 4-hour layover without Asiana (which has been slapped hard on the wrist in the past for SPN-related cabotage) denying me boarding for SPN on the grounds of cabotage? My understanding is that if I have one leg on a US airline I am good to go. Thoughts?

Often1

I'm not sure what the issue is.

This is a US domestic ticket DTW-SPN with a connection at ICN with a segment on a US carrier. The prohibition would be on flying this domestic routing without a US carrier.

Do be aware that any change in routing, including in IRROPS, may cause you heartburn, so worth considering whether this is a good idea.

LoganFlyer

OP: you'll be fine. Denied boarding due to cabotage only applies if a single non-US based carrier takes you between two points in the US (though it doesn't matter if you book separate tickets--you still can be denied boarding). Since your first leg is on DL metal, this won't apply to you.

To everyone who, like me, had never heard of cabotage leading to denied boarding, here's some information:

Beware Cabotage - You Could Be Denied Boarding

Learn something new every day!

SamOF

Any reason to think it has to be a single non-US based carrier?

Often1

That is an incorrect statement.

It must be one or more US based carriers leading to the off-shore location. The prohibition is on flying a non-US carrier between two points in the US. Slight variations around the world, so always worth triple checking if not a US origination.

LoganFlyer

Some of the posts toward the end of the thread I linked to suggested that. I admit I have no personal experience with this though, so they could be wrong and thus I could be wrong.

SamOF

That's not what anyone is talking about.

Is JFK-ICN (KE)/ICN-SPN (OZ) Cabotage?

AJDelvarno

I think it is. Anyone else?

ajeleonard

Yes

paperwastage

Yes

Even on separate tickets (cash/award/mixture) - looks like airlines in Korea have mechanisms to detect this , and force a 96-hour stopover to comply with their interpretation of USA DOT rules to avoid being fined (again)

https://thepointsguy.com/news/illega...mistake-story/

as a passenger, you won't be fined... But could be denied boarding (at JFK? Or ICN?) And/or forced to stopover 96 hours (not sure at whose expense)

Often1

Then "anyone else" should be precise as precision matters when it comes to this scheme.

Yes, the routing you suggest would violate the US DOT rules which encompass what is generically referred to as cabotage. It does not matter how many carriers are involved, what matters is that there is no US carrier in the routing.

SamOF

The discussion you chose to chime in on was very simply and explicitly whether a "single non-US based carrier" is necessary for it to be determined to be cabotage. We might want to be careful with our boilerplate language about lack of precision that we throw around.

Do you have a citation for your claim that the carriers don't matter? From the linked DOT enforcement action above in the thread:

This at least implies to be that it may not apply if the two foreign carriers are not "working in concert." Change my hypothetical to a connection where the two carriers don't even have an interline agreement. Is that cabotage?

Often1

There cannot be a connection across carriers without an interline ticketing agreement. That agreement is the essence of "working in concert." Nothing wrong with that in the ordinary course as it is the underlying purpose of the agreement.

Separate tickets, not booked into the same PNR, is going to be very, very, very hard to prove. As it ought to be.

findark

I admit I've never quite understood cabotage in some of the borderline scenarios, although if the de facto situation is that the country has to complain in order for action to be taken that's reasonable.

If JFK-ICN-SPN is cabotage, what about JFK-ICN-HNL? JFK-ICN-ORD? Does duration of stay matter? Etc.

ethernal

All of those would be cabotage if there are no US carriers on those legs and the stay is short enough that it is a defacto connection or could be perceived as such.

Unfortunately these stupid laws mean that entirely legitimate trips could in theory be blocked. For example, take a business trip from LA and then returning to SFO the next day on a separate ticket within 24 hours after a critical quick meeting in Seoul (they were separate tickets because for some odd reason - in the eyes of the purchaser - KE wouldn't let him book the itinerary as a single ticket)... Oops, theoretically you "could" be denied boarding because it may be cabotage, despite the ridiculousness of someone trying to transit to SFO from LAX via ICN.

While sometimes people bandy around nonsense about "security", they are purely anti-competitive laws that restrict competition in favor of domestic airlines.