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-   -   Atlanta Journal Constitution: DOT disallows Delta ban on pit bulls as service animals (https://www.flyertalk.com/forum/delta-air-lines-skymiles/1982176-atlanta-journal-constitution-dot-disallows-delta-ban-pit-bulls-service-animals.html)

jaymar01 Aug 8, 19 4:40 pm

Atlanta Journal Constitution: DOT disallows Delta ban on pit bulls as service animals
 
The U.S. Department of Transportation issued a statement saying a ban such as Delta Air Lines’ on pit bulls as service animals is not allowed.

Delta announced last year that it was banning “pit bull type dogs” as service or support animals.

But on Thursday, the DOT said it “views a limitation based exclusively on breed of the service animal to not be allowed under its service animal regulation.”“Airlines are permitted to find that any specific animal, regardless of breed, poses a direct threat,” according to the DOT.

https://www.ajc.com/business/dot-dis...7xeAUEiBWQy5O/

altabello Aug 8, 19 5:37 pm

So, Pits are allowed as service animals, but could still be banned as ESAs? It would make sense, as true service animals have a high level of training, while ESAs might have none.

apodo77 Aug 8, 19 6:24 pm

Breed needs to be eradicated.
Flame away. :D

Also how many pit bulls are actual fully trained service animals? Has to be a small list.

ShivasIrons Aug 8, 19 6:43 pm

Should be interesting to see how Delta responds. The article reports that "The DOT in its document released Thursday says conforming with the guidance “is voluntary only” and that its guidance “is not legally binding in its own right and will not be relied on by the Department as a separate basis for affirmative enforcement or other administrative penalty.

manacit Aug 8, 19 7:26 pm


Originally Posted by apodo77 (Post 31395499)
Breed needs to be eradicated.
Flame away.

Also how many pit bulls are actual fully trained service animals? Has to be a small list.

Breed restrictions for fully trained service animals don't feel very necessary - these are dogs that have gone through real training and are likely reliable and can be counted on to be under control.

I think everyone would be fine with no breed restrictions if it meant getting rid of the ESA loophole all together, or adding significantly more stringent requirements to it. As it is, it's asinine that trained animals and a person with a doctor's note are on equal footing.

lupine Aug 8, 19 7:41 pm

Can the airline evaluate what "fully trained service animal" means? I believe that they may be obligated to take the passenger's word that the animal is a fully trained service animal. (At least, that seems to be the ADA requirement. Not sure if ACA varies on that.) We had an employee that self-trained a dog to provide support for his frequent loss of balance. The National Park Service was required to accept the dog as a service dog.

defrosted Aug 8, 19 7:51 pm


Originally Posted by apodo77 (Post 31395499)
Breed needs to be eradicated.
Flame away.

Also how many pit bulls are actual fully trained service animals? Has to be a small list.

:D
I can tell already this thread is going to be a good one.
Queue the popcorn.

SeaHawg Aug 8, 19 10:24 pm

Service Animal, ESA, or whatever- They (a pit breed) should be bonded/insured and the owner should have to sign an unlimited liability waiver before their BP is scanned.

I know this sucks for legitimate service animals, but there had to be some form of deterrent that dissuades people from bringing a known vicious breed on board an aircraft with 100+ passengers.

Agree on breeding pits out of existence- They are nothing but trouble and a huge liability concern. There is nothing a pit is capable of being/doing for their owner that a more docile breed cannot do at far less risk. Flame away indeed...

Gig103 Aug 8, 19 11:35 pm


Originally Posted by SeaHawg (Post 31396029)
Service Animal, ESA, or whatever- They (a pit breed) should be bonded/insured and the owner should have to sign an unlimited liability waiver before their BP is scanned.

I know this sucks for legitimate service animals, but there had to be some form of deterrent that dissuades people from bringing a known vicious breed on board an aircraft with 100+ passengers.

Agree on breeding pits out of existence- They are nothing but trouble and a huge liability concern. There is nothing a pit is capable of being/doing for their owner that a more docile breed cannot do at far less risk. Flame away indeed...

"breeding out of existence" doesn't make sense. If you are breeding the dog, the offspring still has some pit bull still in it. What it sounds like is you want is to euthanize them all, so just say that.

As for ESA vs Service, it's fine with me if the law protects a service animal and not an Esa. The law already protects service animals from discrimination in housing. I don't care what breed is trained to perform a specific set of tasks.

Interestingly enough, I had not heard of pit breeds as service animals but apparently they are sometimes well suited to it. And if one passes the rigors of the training, I wouldn't worry about it.

​https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/can-a-pit-bull-be-a-service-dog/​​​​​

arttravel Aug 8, 19 11:43 pm

[QUOTE=manacit;31395631]Breed restrictions for fully trained service animals don't feel very necessary - these are dogs that have gone through real training and are likely reliable and can be counted on to be under control.”

Part of the problem is that service animals do not require training — people can train their own service animals.

You are referring to serious organizations that spend time and money per animal. For every one of those there is at least one scam charity or business that has self proclaimed trainers and experts that do little if anything to train the dog — some people got dogs that were not even potty trained.



arttravel Aug 8, 19 11:58 pm


Originally Posted by Gig103 (Post 31396158)
"breeding out of existence" doesn't make sense. If you are breeding the dog, the offspring still has some pit bull still in it. What it sounds like is you want is to euthanize them all, so just say that.

As for ESA vs Service, it's fine with me if the law protects a service animal and not an Esa. The law already protects service animals from discrimination in housing. I don't care what breed is trained to perform a specific set of tasks.

Interestingly enough, I had not heard of pit breeds as service animals but apparently they are sometimes well suited to it. And if one passes the rigors of the training, I wouldn't worry about it.

​https://www.servicedogcertifications.org/can-a-pit-bull-be-a-service-dog/​​​​​

Service dog certifications is a ridiculous business that exists to sell people an “identification card” for $39 — but the paper certificate costs $32.99 extra. It is meaningless and of course they want every type of dog registered — more money for them.

I could probably register the dog as a service dog that killed its owner a few months ago with this organisation. ‘

One can stop breeding by sterilisation. There are breeds that no longer exist.


gregsfortytwo Aug 9, 19 1:04 am

More to the point, the DOT upheld every other airline restriction on ESAs and service animals I’m aware of and provided a lot of latitude in questioning passengers about their needs and documentation. The list looked good to me!

nmpls Aug 9, 19 1:47 am


Originally Posted by arttravel (Post 31396202)


Service dog certifications is a ridiculous business that exists to sell people an “identification card” for $39 — but the paper certificate costs $32.99 extra. It is meaningless and of course they want every type of dog registered — more money for them.

I could probably register the dog as a service dog that killed its owner a few months ago with this organisation. ‘

One can stop breeding by sterilisation. There are breeds that no longer exist

One of the quickest ways to determine a service dog is fake is for the owner to pull out some type of certification. Does not exist for the dog.
That said, at least in California, guide dog trainers (can't speak for other service animals) are regulated and must be registered with the dept of consumer affairs.

Read bully breed service dogs do exist though. https://www.huffpost.com/entry/this-...b0a40aa3ad1213

SSF556 Aug 9, 19 7:29 am

Can't they treat pit bulls like peanuts? All the flight attendant has to say is "I am sorry no pit bulls on the flight today because there is a passenger who has a "severe" pit bull allergy". "Thanks for understanding". Just saying....

Collierkr Aug 9, 19 7:58 am


Originally Posted by ShivasIrons (Post 31395537)
Should be interesting to see how Delta responds. The article reports that "The DOT in its document released Thursday says conforming with the guidance “is voluntary only” and that its guidance “is not legally binding in its own right and will not be relied on by the Department as a separate basis for affirmative enforcement or other administrative penalty.

Unless the DOT is going to accept liability for Delta and cover any future losses then I suspect Delta will tell the DOT to go jump in the lake. I may actually throw some more business their way if they stick to their plan.


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