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Atlanta Journal Constitution: DOT disallows Delta ban on pit bulls as service animals

Atlanta Journal Constitution: DOT disallows Delta ban on pit bulls as service animals

Old Aug 15, 19, 5:15 pm
  #76  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist View Post
But they must be appropriately trained, restrainted (leash or carrier/cage), and muzzled at all times.

BTW, DOT has apparently approved miniature horses on airplanes as service animals on an individual basis. My understanding (from what the news is saying) is that airlines can't have a blanket prohibition on horses in the cabin. Does a miniature horse fit in two extra seats, assuming the bulkhead coach row? Is one FC seat (in addition to the seat for its owner) enough space? In D1, the horse would almost need to stand on the flat bed. Yikes!
I think from now on when I travel, I should say my wife is my “Emotional Support Spouse” and she needs to be allowed to travel at no additional cost. 2-for-1 every time we travel!

I feel bad for the airlines who get stuck having to uphold this nonsense.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 9:18 am
  #77  
 
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how about all the jerks out there who 1) don't understand the current law and refuse to even learn about it before pretending to be experts on the internet and 2) see people who need service animals as nothing more than a huge inconvenience to their own personal activities get charged full fare? that would sort a lot of problems really fast.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 9:36 am
  #78  
 
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
how about all the jerks out there who 1) don't understand the current law and refuse to even learn about it before pretending to be experts on the internet and 2) see people who need service animals as nothing more than a huge inconvenience to their own personal activities get charged full fare? that would sort a lot of problems really fast.
"Service Animals" != "Emotional Support Animals". Our own ADA doesn't even recognize ESAs. Only the ACAA.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 9:50 am
  #79  
 
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It's the people who legitimately need service animals who have often been behind a lot of state level laws criminalizing fake service animals because the problems the fake service animals cause make it much harder for those who really need a seeing eye dog and such.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 9:51 am
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I was in F on a CR9 flight yesterday with an ESA next to me and one behind me. The one next to me was some kind of ugly frufru dog that stared at me the entire flight and panted. The dog stunk horribly. I took a picture, but for privacy reasons I won't post it here. Then licked my arm when I put it on the armrest. The owner made no attempt to reposition the dog. Then the dog started growling at the dog behind us. It prompted me to complain to DL for the first time in probably 400 flights. I realize DL is hamstrung by the twits in the ACAA that allow this chaos, but ultimately I paid DL for the "experience". I don't see any reason ESAs can't be required to be put in a carrier. That would solve most of the traveling public's concerns. I bet other countries laugh at the whole US ESA debacle...

PS: The dog's owner behind me (in Y+) was drunk, and he kept yelling at the FAs as they went by to get him another drink and more cheese-its. And they did. He was talking loudly enough behind me I heard him say he was moving. Later I saw the guy pushing the (40-50lb) dog around in a wheelchair swerving all over the place. Tried to get a video, but he stopped at the first bar.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 9:58 am
  #81  
 
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
how about all the jerks out there who 1) don't understand the current law and refuse to even learn about it before pretending to be experts on the internet and 2) see people who need service animals as nothing more than a huge inconvenience to their own personal activities get charged full fare? that would sort a lot of problems really fast.
1) “Service animal” performing a legitimate service does not equal “emotional support animal” which is “I just want to travel with my pet and I don’t want to pay the pet in cabin fee or pay for a pet-sitter”.
2) Just because something is the law does not mean one cannot disagree with the law or advocate that the law be revised or changed.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 10:02 am
  #82  
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So the big dog was handicapped rather than its owner? Does DL have to transport a dog's wheelchair for free or did he *borrow* a wheelchair that the airport was providing for some *person* who really needed it? [I'm assuming you're not talking about the special wheeled devices that are individually made to help dogs with deformed or amputated legs.]
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Old Aug 16, 19, 10:32 am
  #83  
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Originally Posted by HDQDD View Post
I was in F on a CR9 flight yesterday with an ESA next to me and one behind me. The one next to me was some kind of ugly frufru dog that stared at me the entire flight and panted. The dog stunk horribly. I took a picture, but for privacy reasons I won't post it here. Then licked my arm when I put it on the armrest. The owner made no attempt to reposition the dog. Then the dog started growling at the dog behind us. It prompted me to complain to DL for the first time in probably 400 flights. I realize DL is hamstrung by the twits in the ACAA that allow this chaos, but ultimately I paid DL for the "experience". I don't see any reason ESAs can't be required to be put in a carrier. That would solve most of the traveling public's concerns. I bet other countries laugh at the whole US ESA debacle...

PS: The dog's owner behind me (in Y+) was drunk, and he kept yelling at the FAs as they went by to get him another drink and more cheese-its. And they did. He was talking loudly enough behind me I heard him say he was moving. Later I saw the guy pushing the (40-50lb) dog around in a wheelchair swerving all over the place. Tried to get a video, but he stopped at the first bar.
If an ESA is "needed" for anxiety, it is usually the act of touching the ESA in some way that helps. Crating the animal won't help the person who needs it.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 10:42 am
  #84  
 
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Originally Posted by HDQDD View Post
"Service Animals" != "Emotional Support Animals". Our own ADA doesn't even recognize ESAs. Only the ACAA.
Have you been reading the thread? There are people who don't care about the difference, they want all the animals off the planes and since they know they aren't going to win that fight they want to make things as hard as possible for anyone with an animal. They don't care about anyone but themselves. They would rather see 20 people with a legit need for a service animal suffer than one person with an ESA board a plane.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 10:45 am
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Originally Posted by beachmouse View Post
It's the people who legitimately need service animals who have often been behind a lot of state level laws criminalizing fake service animals because the problems the fake service animals cause make it much harder for those who really need a seeing eye dog and such.
There aren't any "fake service animals" on planes, though.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 10:45 am
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Originally Posted by HDQDD View Post

PS: The dog's owner behind me (in Y+) was drunk, and he kept yelling at the FAs as they went by to get him another drink and more cheese-its. And they did. He was talking loudly enough behind me I heard him say he was moving. Later I saw the guy pushing the (40-50lb) dog around in a wheelchair swerving all over the place. Tried to get a video, but he stopped at the first bar.
so you had a bad experience because of a drunk passenger and somehow the solution is to crack down on dogs.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 10:47 am
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Originally Posted by ATOBTTR View Post

1) “Service animal” performing a legitimate service does not equal “emotional support animal” which is “I just want to travel with my pet and I don’t want to pay the pet in cabin fee or pay for a pet-sitter”.
2) Just because something is the law does not mean one cannot disagree with the law or advocate that the law be revised or changed.
1) you should be telling that to the people who just want blanket solutions like "muzzle all dogs"

2) sure, but the people who are advocating "solutions" who clearly don't understand the current law aren't making reasoned arguments like that.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 11:01 am
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
so you had a bad experience because of a drunk passenger and somehow the solution is to crack down on dogs.
Yep. The solution is to crack-down on ESAs and create specific rules and guidelines for training and certification - more strict than what is required now where one can buy a certificate online and an animal who requires no training whatsoever. I’ve traveled with a pet in the cabin before. I paid $150 each way or whatever the fee was. And we had to follow very specific rules in the terminal and onboard the aircraft. Our pet had to be in a pet carrier at all times, etc. Then again maybe I’m the stupid one and I maybe I should have paid as little as $25 and gotten some therapist to sign off on an ESA certificate instead....

But no, I followed the rules and so I’m perfectly fine with Emotional Support Animals being cracked down on. It may be a pipe-dream for it to ever happen especially with the way society is going but I would not be the least bit upset if regulations were changed and what constitutes an ESA and what actual training an ESA should have to be required to go through to be able to be an ESA.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 12:27 pm
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Originally Posted by ATOBTTR View Post
[left]
Yep. The solution is to crack-down on ESAs and create specific rules and guidelines for training and certification - more strict than what is required now where one can buy a certificate online and an animal who requires no training whatsoever. I’ve traveled with a pet in the cabin before. I paid $150 each way or whatever the fee was. And we had to follow very specific rules in the terminal and onboard the aircraft. Our pet had to be in a pet carrier at all times, etc. Then again maybe I’m the stupid one and I maybe I should have paid as little as $25 and gotten some therapist to sign off on an ESA certificate instead....
The fact that the rules are different for pets and ESAs isn't an argument that the ESA rules are bad. And regardless, none of this is going to fix the problem you experienced with the drunk passenger. This is like reading one of those trip advisor reviews where the reviewer goes on and on about how rude the staff was at a hotel without any specifics and at the very end you find the real problem, the front desk wouldn't give them free wifi. All of the "rude" comments were just emotional appeals because they knew their real complaint was pretty empty.
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Old Aug 16, 19, 12:30 pm
  #90  
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Originally Posted by ATOBTTR View Post

Yep. The solution is to crack-down on ESAs and create specific rules and guidelines for training and certification - more strict than what is required now where one can buy a certificate online and an animal who requires no training whatsoever. I’ve traveled with a pet in the cabin before. I paid $150 each way or whatever the fee was. And we had to follow very specific rules in the terminal and onboard the aircraft. Our pet had to be in a pet carrier at all times, etc. Then again maybe I’m the stupid one and I maybe I should have paid as little as $25 and gotten some therapist to sign off on an ESA certificate instead....

But no, I followed the rules and so I’m perfectly fine with Emotional Support Animals being cracked down on. It may be a pipe-dream for it to ever happen especially with the way society is going but I would not be the least bit upset if regulations were changed and what constitutes an ESA and what actual training an ESA should have to be required to go through to be able to be an ESA.
How do you test an ESA that is supposed to help with anxiety? What about one that is supposed to help with depression? Do you find a stranger suffering from anxiety and see if the animal helps them? Or a person suffering with depression? Oftentimes, the bond between the animal and the human is part of what helps and you cannot test that with a stranger. Likewise, what works for one person with anxiety or depression may not work for another. It is relatively easy to test service dogs, because they have been trained to perform a specific skill. It isn't quite as easy with an ESA.
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