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Atlanta Journal Constitution: DOT disallows Delta ban on pit bulls as service animals

Atlanta Journal Constitution: DOT disallows Delta ban on pit bulls as service animals

Old Aug 14, 19, 11:21 am
  #61  
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Originally Posted by Old Hickory View Post
So for a few hours, then maybe the pax will need to have another human perform those grasping duties.
So, you want someone to either fly with a person who can help, at an additional fee, or ask a stranger for help? You do realize how challenging it is to ask for help from a stranger, especially when you are disabled?
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Old Aug 14, 19, 11:57 am
  #62  
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For all you Pit Bull defenders out there, have a look at this link. Peruse the breeds involved in the 2010-2019 lists. Hint: Not a lot of Beagles implicated.

Fatal dog attacks in the United States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_..._United_States
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Old Aug 14, 19, 12:45 pm
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Originally Posted by Bonehead View Post
For all you Pit Bull defenders out there, have a look at this link. Peruse the breeds involved in the 2010-2019 lists. Hint: Not a lot of Beagles implicated.

Fatal dog attacks in the United States

https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Fatal_..._United_States

It's been established that when pitbulls do attack, they inflict more damage. It's still unproven that they will attack at a higher rate than any other breed.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 1:08 pm
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Originally Posted by ekozie View Post
It's been established that when pitbulls do attack, they inflict more damage. It's still unproven that they will attack at a higher rate than any other breed.
Domesticated tigers should be allowed on a plane too. It's still unproven that they attack at a higher rate than miniature poodles. Just because tigers are highly likely to kill you when they attack is no reason to ban them.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 1:30 pm
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Originally Posted by GatorBlues View Post
Domesticated tigers should be allowed on a plane too. It's still unproven that they attack at a higher rate than miniature poodles. Just because tigers are highly likely to kill you when they attack is no reason to ban them.
Exactly. Pit bull bans are perfectly rational when you consider not just the probability of an attack, but the damage that would likely result. Talk of aggressiveness is, frankly, a red herring.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 1:51 pm
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Originally Posted by ekozie View Post
It's been established that when pitbulls do attack, they inflict more damage. It's still unproven that they will attack at a higher rate than any other breed.
it's also unproven that they do more damage than other dogs of the same size.

And, none of this shows whether the dogs in question were "inherently dangerous" or were provoked, trained to be aggressive, etc.

Clearly they do more than average since they're ... bigger than average.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 1:53 pm
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it's always interesting to see how proud people are of being willfully ignorant of statistics.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 2:15 pm
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
it's also unproven that they do more damage than other dogs of the same size.

And, none of this shows whether the dogs in question were "inherently dangerous" or were provoked, trained to be aggressive, etc.

Clearly they do more than average since they're ... bigger than average.
https://www.mnn.com/family/pets/stor...yths-dispelled

Bolding is mine:

The jaws of a pit bull function the exact same way as all other dogs' jaws, and no dog breed has ever been found to possess a locking mechanism. Pit bulls also don't have more bite pressure than any other dog breed.

Dr. Brady Barr of National Geographic found that the domestic canines have an average bite of 320 pounds of force, and as part of his study, he tested the bites of three popular dog breeds: a German shepherd, a Rottweiler and an American pit bull.

The Rottweiler had the toughest bite with 328 pounds of force, the German shepherd came in second with 238 pounds of force, and the pit bull bit with 235 pounds of force ó the lowest of the group.
Aggression is a trait that varies from dog to dog regardless of breed, and it often has more to with the animal's environment and its owners than the dog itself.

A 2008 study by the University of Pennsylvania looked at aggressiveness in 30 dog breeds and found that Chihuahuas and dachshunds were the most aggressive toward humans and other dogs.

Pit bulls were among the most aggressive toward other dogs, particularly those they didnít know. However, pit bulls weren't more aggressive than other breeds toward strangers and their owners.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 3:38 pm
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Originally Posted by pgrin View Post
All dogs being transported in the passenger compartment of an airplane, without regard to their stated purpose, shall be muzzled at all times,
Problem sorted.

ESA are welcome on Delta and will be charged the full fare ticket price - Problem sorted
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Old Aug 15, 19, 8:04 am
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
it's always interesting to see how proud people are of being willfully ignorant of statistics.
I agree. Did you peruse the list of fatal dog attacks 2010-2019 and note the preponderance of Pit Bulls implicated in those attacks?
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Old Aug 15, 19, 9:42 am
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Yes. Are you aware that nobody is claiming that pit bulls have never attacked any humans?
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Old Aug 15, 19, 10:46 am
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Just did skim of that wikipedia list. What's also interesting is that a more common thread in the descriptions of the attacks that point to either negligent/abusive ownership and/or a significant provoking action (e.g., unsocialized dogs locked in a garage, prior citations for animal cruelty, not fed for days, dog attacked while the victim was physically assaulting dog's owner).

Also, please pull forward the prior comments that "pit bull" isn't even an actual breed as the cited wikipedia also contains many case notes that amount to "maybe this one was a pit bull, not really sure" and categorizes it anyway. That list is a wonderful specimen of reinforcing a preconceived conclusion simply by defaulting to it whenever things are ambiguous.

At the end of the day, all dog breeds can and do attack humans. But their individual training, treatment, and immediate environment are far more significant factors in their inclination to be aggressive than their breed.
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Old Aug 15, 19, 1:31 pm
  #73  
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Originally Posted by gooselee View Post
Just did skim of that wikipedia list. What's also interesting is that a more common thread in the descriptions of the attacks that point to either negligent/abusive ownership and/or a significant provoking action (e.g., unsocialized dogs locked in a garage, prior citations for animal cruelty, not fed for days, dog attacked while the victim was physically assaulting dog's owner).

Also, please pull forward the prior comments that "pit bull" isn't even an actual breed as the cited wikipedia also contains many case notes that amount to "maybe this one was a pit bull, not really sure" and categorizes it anyway. That list is a wonderful specimen of reinforcing a preconceived conclusion simply by defaulting to it whenever things are ambiguous.

At the end of the day, all dog breeds can and do attack humans. But their individual training, treatment, and immediate environment are far more significant factors in their inclination to be aggressive than their breed.
This.
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Old Aug 15, 19, 3:19 pm
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I don't see what the big deal is. I'm pretty sure Pitbull flies private charter or has his own personal plane, so the question of whether Delta would allow him on board should be moot.

/me runs out of the thread
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Old Aug 15, 19, 4:56 pm
  #75  
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Originally Posted by SteveinA2 View Post
ESA are welcome on Delta and will be charged the full fare ticket price - Problem sorted
But they must be appropriately trained, restrainted (leash or carrier/cage), and muzzled at all times.

BTW, DOT has apparently approved miniature horses on airplanes as service animals on an individual basis. My understanding (from what the news is saying) is that airlines can't have a blanket prohibition on horses in the cabin. Does a miniature horse fit in two extra seats, assuming the bulkhead coach row? Is one FC seat (in addition to the seat for its owner) enough space? In D1, the horse would almost need to stand on the flat bed. Yikes!
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