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Atlanta Journal Constitution: DOT disallows Delta ban on pit bulls as service animals

Atlanta Journal Constitution: DOT disallows Delta ban on pit bulls as service animals

Old Aug 11, 19, 1:08 pm
  #46  
 
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Originally Posted by ekozie View Post
I always thought the ban on snub nosed breeds (i.e. pitbulls) was due to the respiratory issues caused by their differently-shaped facial bone structure that is compounded by the pressurization of an aircraft cabin. Complications breathing can be dangerous to these dogs. Until I see any statistics (not anecdotes) that say these breeds are more/less/the same amount likely to attack a human unprovoked, I think we're having the wrong discussion.

Some light reading:
https://www.huffpost.com/entry/bulld...isks_n_1003495
https://www.politifact.com/georgia/s...ve-other-dogs/
https://www.dailymotion.com/video/x2e5w4h
That ban is for putting them below the cabin in cargo. This thread is about having them in the cabin. Very different issues.
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Old Aug 11, 19, 1:27 pm
  #47  
 
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Originally Posted by Widgets View Post

That ban is for putting them below the cabin in cargo. This thread is about having them in the cabin. Very different issues.
That specific article, yes, but there is a ban on cabin snub-nosed dogs as well that came later.

Additionally, we are do not accept pit bull type dogs as service or support animals.
source: https://www.delta.com/us/en/accessib...ervice-animals
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Old Aug 11, 19, 1:50 pm
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Originally Posted by ekozie View Post
That specific article, yes, but there is a ban on cabin snub-nosed dogs as well that came later.



source: https://www.delta.com/us/en/accessib...ervice-animals
Snub-nosed = pugs too. The ban on cargo is for respiratory safety. The ban in the cabin is specific to pit bull breeds because people were getting attacked. The ban in cargo vs. the cabin are for different reasons and applied to different categories of animal.
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Old Aug 11, 19, 6:05 pm
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Originally Posted by Widgets View Post

Snub-nosed = pugs too. The ban on cargo is for respiratory safety. The ban in the cabin is specific to pit bull breeds because people were getting attacked. The ban in cargo vs. the cabin are for different reasons and applied to different categories of animal.
I still have yet to see actual evidence that pugs/snub-nosed/whatever you want to call them actually are more aggressive than other breeds.
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Old Aug 12, 19, 12:39 pm
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I'm visualizing an airline-only response (as opposed to State licensing) that involves on-site behavior testing and adds inconvenience to the mix. Someone, perhaps even a trained volunteer, takes your service animal to the pet area and runs it through a set of behavior tests - while you wait. (Maybe not the pet area but someplace land-side before you go through security.) An assessment protocol would need to be designed for various animals - dogs, cats, ferrets, peacocks, miniature horses etc. Your animal only needs to complete the assessment once, but all animals are required to be chipped so that you can't substitute a different animal. You could do the assessment on a different day from your flight (but, like Global Entry, it might take awhile to get an appointment.) There would be a fee for the assessment (after all, responsible animal ownership is expensive.) Volunteer evaluators might be possible because lots of people like to work with animals; they could be recruited from local animal shelters. However, it would take some expensive animal behavior consultants to design the tests and train the volunteers. Gradually a system develops that's trustworthy (as opposed to mail-order "Emotional Service Animal" certifications. I'm even wondering if an animal's fitness score could be stored on its chip and used in different contexts. Wondering if ADA laws could be modified to address these issues.
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Old Aug 12, 19, 2:13 pm
  #51  
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Originally Posted by ConnieDee View Post
I'm visualizing an airline-only response (as opposed to State licensing) that involves on-site behavior testing and adds inconvenience to the mix. Someone, perhaps even a trained volunteer, takes your service animal to the pet area and runs it through a set of behavior tests - while you wait. (Maybe not the pet area but someplace land-side before you go through security.) An assessment protocol would need to be designed for various animals - dogs, cats, ferrets, peacocks, miniature horses etc. Your animal only needs to complete the assessment once, but all animals are required to be chipped so that you can't substitute a different animal. You could do the assessment on a different day from your flight (but, like Global Entry, it might take awhile to get an appointment.) There would be a fee for the assessment (after all, responsible animal ownership is expensive.) Volunteer evaluators might be possible because lots of people like to work with animals; they could be recruited from local animal shelters. However, it would take some expensive animal behavior consultants to design the tests and train the volunteers. Gradually a system develops that's trustworthy (as opposed to mail-order "Emotional Service Animal" certifications. I'm even wondering if an animal's fitness score could be stored on its chip and used in different contexts. Wondering if ADA laws could be modified to address these issues.
Some animals don't respond well to strangers when their human isn't present. Likewise, how does a volunteer tell if a dog is trained as an ESA? Fake anxiety or some other issue?
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Old Aug 12, 19, 2:55 pm
  #52  
 
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Originally Posted by ConnieDee View Post
I'm visualizing an airline-only response (as opposed to State licensing) that involves on-site behavior testing and adds inconvenience to the mix. Someone, perhaps even a trained volunteer, takes your service animal to the pet area and runs it through a set of behavior tests - while you wait. (Maybe not the pet area but someplace land-side before you go through security.) An assessment protocol would need to be designed for various animals - dogs, cats, ferrets, peacocks, miniature horses etc. Your animal only needs to complete the assessment once, but all animals are required to be chipped so that you can't substitute a different animal. You could do the assessment on a different day from your flight (but, like Global Entry, it might take awhile to get an appointment.) There would be a fee for the assessment (after all, responsible animal ownership is expensive.) Volunteer evaluators might be possible because lots of people like to work with animals; they could be recruited from local animal shelters. However, it would take some expensive animal behavior consultants to design the tests and train the volunteers. Gradually a system develops that's trustworthy (as opposed to mail-order "Emotional Service Animal" certifications. I'm even wondering if an animal's fitness score could be stored on its chip and used in different contexts. Wondering if ADA laws could be modified to address these issues.
Yes, this sounds like a great plan. People who need service animals have things TOO GOOD now, we need to make their life BOTH harder AND more expensive. That'll learn em.
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Old Aug 12, 19, 8:01 pm
  #53  
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Just because people "like to work with animals" doesn't mean they'll work for free. I'm sure my vet loves working with animals but she sure as heck isn't waving off my bills.

The is the same fallacy as telling graphic designers to do something for free because it "adds to their portfolio".
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Old Aug 12, 19, 8:22 pm
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Originally Posted by gooselee View Post
Just because people "like to work with animals" doesn't mean they'll work for free. I'm sure my vet loves working with animals but she sure as heck isn't waving off my bills.

The is the same fallacy as telling graphic designers to do something for free because it "adds to their portfolio".
True. My vet won't waive my vet bills. Most vets won't waive bills for rescues. They may offer a discount for rescues, but even for them, won't work for free.
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Old Aug 12, 19, 9:00 pm
  #55  
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Originally Posted by ekozie View Post
I still have yet to see actual evidence that pugs/snub-nosed/whatever you want to call them actually are more aggressive than other breeds.
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/19644273
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pubmed/21475022
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Old Aug 12, 19, 9:06 pm
  #56  
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I don't see anything in the summaries that indicates that they factor in the population of dog by breed (if there are 10x the pit bulls, I would think the number of bites would be substantially higher than from other breeds), nor does it factor in dog size. Obviously, a bite from a pug may require medical attention, but probably will not be as severe as the bite from a husky, due to size.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 7:34 pm
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Also complicating those statistics - "pit bull" isn't an actual breed so this bucket of stats casts a wider net than say, bites attributed to golden retrievers. a pit bull may be a rottweiler crossed with a poodle, staffordshire crossed with a labrador, bulldog crossed with jack russell etc etc etc as long as the dog has outward characteristics like big head/chest etc that classify it as a 'pit type breed'
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Old Aug 13, 19, 8:01 pm
  #58  
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Originally Posted by maewest View Post
Also complicating those statistics - "pit bull" isn't an actual breed so this bucket of stats casts a wider net than say, bites attributed to golden retrievers. a pit bull may be a rottweiler crossed with a poodle, staffordshire crossed with a labrador, bulldog crossed with jack russell etc etc etc as long as the dog has outward characteristics like big head/chest etc that classify it as a 'pit type breed'
This is a good example of that. https://www.shawpitbullrescue.com/ca...-the-pit-bull/

Some of those would be labeled a pit bull or a pit bull mix to the uninformed.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 10:03 am
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Originally Posted by WillBarrett_68 View Post
many service animals need to be able to grasp things, and they aint got no thumbs.
So for a few hours, then maybe the pax will need to have another human perform those grasping duties.
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Old Aug 14, 19, 10:47 am
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Originally Posted by Old Hickory View Post
So for a few hours, then maybe the pax will need to have another human perform those grasping duties.
Are YOU going to do it?
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