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Delta exiting NRT, ending NRT-SIN and moving MNL flight to ICN

Delta exiting NRT, ending NRT-SIN and moving MNL flight to ICN

Old Aug 12, 19, 6:49 pm
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Originally Posted by ChamplinAl View Post
Still seeing NRT in Delta's "book-a-flight" online screens into 2020 June flight combinations and no HND showing as of Sunday (8-11-2019). When should we expect Delta to show the new HND flights? Is the delay because of flight times (arrivals / departures) have not been locked down yet? .....and do we know yet if Delta will still use a B767-300ER on the NEW ICN-MNL leg? By the time this leg is active: a 339 will be arriving from SEA, a 772 will be arriving from MSP, a 359 will be arriving from both DTW and ATL. Will a switch to PDX-ICN (a A332 flight) be used instead of PDX-HND (a A332 flight) to then extend the ICN-MNL as a A332 leg? This change also gives Delta an open slot to add the 2nd HNL-HND flight (which was asked for and was not awarded). Just a thought.
Lots to unpack here. I suspect:

- HND flights will not be filed until Delta receives slot assignments from the Japanese authorities; otherwise, too many connecting flight rebookings would need to happen. Better to wait until they have some certainty and redo the bookings only once. Delta only just got the formal authority to apply, so I expect another couple weeks here.
- On ICN-MNL I expect the aircraft will be one of the other aircraft operating US-ICN; part of why MNL is feasible is that it can be flown in only a few hours each way. So I think it's safe to say this flight will be a different aircraft type (probably some A330 variant).
- PDX-HND is definitely happening because Delta got the slot authority. No announcement has been made about PDX-ICN, but it's a pretty reasonable guess for future expansion down the line. Probably not an immediate thing until HND finds its footing, though.
- PDX-HND can't switch to HNL-HND; the authority is specific to each route, and if they give up a route it goes back up for public rebid at the USDOT.
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Old Aug 12, 19, 7:47 pm
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Originally Posted by BenA View Post
...
- HND flights will not be filed until Delta receives slot assignments from the Japanese authorities; otherwise, too many connecting flight rebookings would need to happen. Better to wait until they have some certainty and redo the bookings only once. Delta only just got the formal authority to apply, so I expect another couple weeks here.
...
The Japan Schedule Coordination office determines the allocation of slots at HND airport. Exact dates for scheduling the IATA Summer 2020 season have not been published.

For the IATA Summer 2019 season (31 March 2019 - 26 October 2019), some of these key planning dates were:
  • Deadline for submission of initial slot requests by airlines: 05 October 2018
  • Initial slot allocation and distribution of slot allocations: 02 November 2018
  • IATA slot conference: 13-16 November 2018
Based on last year's calendar, it would seem that DL won't know if they've received what DL called "viable operational slots" until sometime in November.
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Old Aug 12, 19, 9:41 pm
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Originally Posted by ChamplinAl View Post
Still seeing NRT in Delta's "book-a-flight" online screens into 2020 June flight combinations and no HND showing as of Sunday (8-11-2019). When should we expect Delta to show the new HND flights? Is the delay because of flight times (arrivals / departures) have not been locked down yet? .....and do we know yet if Delta will still use a B767-300ER on the NEW ICN-MNL leg? By the time this leg is active: a 339 will be arriving from SEA, a 772 will be arriving from MSP, a 359 will be arriving from both DTW and ATL. Will a switch to PDX-ICN (a A332 flight) be used instead of PDX-HND (a A332 flight) to then extend the ICN-MNL as a A332 leg? This change also gives Delta an open slot to add the 2nd HNL-HND flight (which was asked for and was not awarded). Just a thought.
DL has said only that ICN-MNL will use a bigger aircraft. Thus it wont be a 767, which makes sense as there wont be 767 US/ICN anymore. Cant just fly a 767 over without passengers for a short back and forth once a day. Awful waste of limited widebodies.
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Old Aug 12, 19, 11:01 pm
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Wow, that's extremely helpful and eye-opening....and now makes sense when I made my original booking. I'm actually disappointed I may miss flying NH via NRT-KUL in my segments, but I'm curious how this shake up will look. I selfishly admit, I'm not thrilled with the prospect of waiting 2-3 months for flights to be finalized and know if I'll end up on a completely new routing. I think it's more painful when I see ICN or PVG flights available and the only way that's happening at this time is a change fee. Lesson learned, I should have been more in tune with what's shaking in SE Asia routes.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 6:07 am
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I suspect this is part-fluff, but it would appear that Delta marked ICN as a hub in their article about new HND service:

https://news.delta.com/delta-become-...yo-haneda-2020

I'm not sure of the numbers, but I suppose if DL manages to find additional aircraft, they could swing additional ICN routes.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 6:15 am
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Originally Posted by discoseal View Post
I suspect this is part-fluff, but it would appear that Delta marked ICN as a hub in their article about new HND service:

https://news.delta.com/delta-become-...yo-haneda-2020

I'm not sure of the numbers, but I suppose if DL manages to find additional aircraft, they could swing additional ICN routes.
Somewhat surprised they haven't announced some kind of lounge space @ HND. Or, perhaps they have and I missed it?
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Old Aug 13, 19, 8:06 am
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Originally Posted by dcadwell View Post
Somewhat surprised they haven't announced some kind of lounge space @ HND. Or, perhaps they have and I missed it?
At least short term, same lounge I'm guessing. I know we all would like a DL SC. However DL has been closing all international ones for awhile. Even MNL the last one that closed during airport renovations never reopened. SCL will close once new ST lounge is open, which I'm guessing is tied with airport work.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 8:13 am
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Slightly off topic but then again, that seems ok here -- in the past with NW/DL at NRT-- did the aircraft coming from the USA do turns at NRT, or did they continue on to Asian destinations? Then the next day return say SIN-NRT-ATL?
Thanks
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Old Aug 13, 19, 8:15 am
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Originally Posted by kyushuman View Post
Slightly off topic but then again, that seems ok here -- in the past with NW/DL at NRT-- did the aircraft coming from the USA do turns at NRT, or did they continue on to Asian destinations? Then the next day return say SIN-NRT-ATL?
Thanks
In my experience the SIN-NRT route (once/day) was serviced by the same 767.
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Old Aug 13, 19, 8:24 am
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Originally Posted by kyushuman View Post
Slightly off topic but then again, that seems ok here -- in the past with NW/DL at NRT-- did the aircraft coming from the USA do turns at NRT, or did they continue on to Asian destinations? Then the next day return say SIN-NRT-ATL?
Thanks
In general it did as you say. Come from US goto SIN/MNL/BKK/etc.. turn around come back and then fly onto US.

Recently with limited ( I think PDX only) 767 service at least one 767 usually sticks around NRT. The other does the normal US-NRT-SIN/MNL-NRT-US routine.

ETA - The routes that were flown by 757s did stay at NRT. They were at one time a separate configuration (Asian) than any of the others.
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Last edited by flyerCO; Aug 13, 19 at 8:37 am
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Old Aug 13, 19, 8:24 am
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
In general it did as you say. Come from US goto SIN/MNL/BKK/etc.. turn around come back and then fly onto US.

Recently with limited ( I think PDX only) 767 service at least one 767 usually sticks around NRT. The other does the normal US-NRT-SIN/MNL-NRT-US routine.
And, there we have it!
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Old Aug 13, 19, 8:48 am
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Originally Posted by discoseal View Post
I suspect this is part-fluff, but it would appear that Delta marked ICN as a hub in their article about new HND service:

https://news.delta.com/delta-become-...yo-haneda-2020

I'm not sure of the numbers, but I suppose if DL manages to find additional aircraft, they could swing additional ICN routes.
Of course its a hub. DL has its code on hundreds of flights every day at ICN. If you are going almost anywhere in Asia on DL, there's a good chance you'll be connecting thru ICN. That's the definition of a hub.

DL loves to partner with joint ventures, and it always calls its JV hubs as hubs: CDG, AMS, MEX

DL has plenty of planes, they've received a significant number of brand new widebodies in the past few years, much more than they have retired. They could add routes any time they want to. In fact, they are slowing down A350 deliveries.
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Last edited by kjnangre; Aug 13, 19 at 9:39 am
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Old Aug 13, 19, 9:30 am
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This appears to be a bit different though. I did a little bit of further digging and found that, outside of a JV with KE, they've actually signed a mutual agreement with ICN to develop part of the airport for their use:

https://news.delta.com/delta-partner...northeast-asia
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Old Aug 13, 19, 9:38 am
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Originally Posted by discoseal View Post
This appears to be a bit different though. I did a little bit of further digging and found that, outside of a JV with KE, they've actually signed a mutual agreement with ICN to develop part of the airport for their use:

https://news.delta.com/delta-partner...northeast-asia
I think you're reading a bit too much into a fancy photo op. DL has agreements with CDG and AMS too. NBD
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Old Aug 13, 19, 9:38 am
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Originally Posted by flyerCO View Post
At least short term, same lounge I'm guessing. I know we all would like a DL SC. However DL has been closing all international ones for awhile. Even MNL the last one that closed during airport renovations never reopened. SCL will close once new ST lounge is open, which I'm guessing is tied with airport work.
Yeah, unfortunately DL has been dumping international SkyClubs and forcing pax onto partner lounges... which means you only get in with a D1 ticket. So much for DL or SkyTeam status.

At least with SCL, even though the SkyClub is going to close, it is being replaced with a ST Lounge, which means STE+ gets access... meaning Delta GM and higher can use the lounge. If DL replaces/opens some of their intl lounges with ST Lounges that would be acceptable, since you could then access it with your status. Relying on 3rd party partner lounges at what is supposed to be a major point now like HND is just crappy since your SkyTeam status or SkyClub membership doesn't get you in.
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