O class avail, but still pricing at ludicrous amounts
Jul 26, 2019, 7:57 am
#1
Original Poster
Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: UA 1k, AA EXPLT, NZ GE, VA PLT Hyatt Diam, Marr Plat, HH Diam
Posts: 3,445
O class avail, but still pricing at ludicrous amounts
Trying to book PDX-NRT in D1 for end of July. EF showing O class available on 28th, 29th, and 30th. Shouldn’t that mean that DL will price the tickets at 90k or so? Instead, when I do a calendar search, the usual ludicrous 360k miles are shown for all days in July, including the days that EF says has the Level 1 “O” class available. What am I doing wrong here?
I can book the same DL flights for just 90k using FlyingBlue miles, but DL wants 360k. That’s nuts.
I can book the same DL flights for just 90k using FlyingBlue miles, but DL wants 360k. That’s nuts.
Last edited by SFO_FT; Jul 26, 2019 at 8:07 am
Jul 26, 2019, 8:50 am
#2
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,053
Skymiles and Flying Blue are different programs. Cheapest DL low-level awards have various requirements like advance booking, roundtrip booking (w/min stay or Sat night stay), day of travel, etc. (much like revenue fares). There can also limited time seasonal awards.
Don't know where EF gets it's data (I'm pretty sure DL doesn't expose it anywhere). DL D1/F awards book into classes that use class codes from the revenue buckets like OD, OI, OZ, etc. The award fare basis codes suggests there's a dual inventory check (as with discount domestic FC fares, C+, BE, etc). The cheapest D1 awards currently on PDX-Asia look to be CSVR900 awards for 90K each-way. The C indicates a D1 award, the 'V' is a class code (V is DL's lowest fare class for coach -- which suggest there must be both award OZ bucket and award coach V bucket to book these). The 'R' indicates a roundtrip booking is required and the fare rules note a 7-day min stay is required as well. They are good for Mon-Thu travel and are seasonally limited to Sep 6 - Dec 6 (found in the fare rules). The cheapest one-way D1 awards on DL metal are 120K CSV1200 awards (again, note the 'V' class which suggests the lowest level) and these have a 90-day advance purchase requirement. The cheapest awards on partner are 85K CSMH850 one-way awards. These have a 60-day advance purchase requirement.
Don't know where EF gets it's data (I'm pretty sure DL doesn't expose it anywhere). DL D1/F awards book into classes that use class codes from the revenue buckets like OD, OI, OZ, etc. The award fare basis codes suggests there's a dual inventory check (as with discount domestic FC fares, C+, BE, etc). The cheapest D1 awards currently on PDX-Asia look to be CSVR900 awards for 90K each-way. The C indicates a D1 award, the 'V' is a class code (V is DL's lowest fare class for coach -- which suggest there must be both award OZ bucket and award coach V bucket to book these). The 'R' indicates a roundtrip booking is required and the fare rules note a 7-day min stay is required as well. They are good for Mon-Thu travel and are seasonally limited to Sep 6 - Dec 6 (found in the fare rules). The cheapest one-way D1 awards on DL metal are 120K CSV1200 awards (again, note the 'V' class which suggests the lowest level) and these have a 90-day advance purchase requirement. The cheapest awards on partner are 85K CSMH850 one-way awards. These have a 60-day advance purchase requirement.
Last edited by xliioper; Jul 26, 2019 at 10:23 am
Jul 26, 2019, 10:28 am
#4
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Lots of searching, trial and error.
BTW, DL sometimes has short sales on award tickets, so watch for the weekly deals email (which sometimes features sales on tickets paid with money). The decent ones have limited inventory, so you're lucky to get a sale ticket with a bad schedule near the end of the stated period.
BTW, DL sometimes has short sales on award tickets, so watch for the weekly deals email (which sometimes features sales on tickets paid with money). The decent ones have limited inventory, so you're lucky to get a sale ticket with a bad schedule near the end of the stated period.
Jul 26, 2019, 10:29 am
#5
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Posts: 23,053
The award fare basis codes and fare rules are found at the "Fare Rules" link when you have selected an award. I just use the 5-week award calendar search option to search well into the future (knowing that the cheapest awards have advance purchase requirements). Doing a roundtrip search with 7-day stay you can generally find the cheapest award levels with roundtrip booking requirements. Once you find the cheapest award, select it and then click on the Fare Rules link to find the requirements for that award fare. You can repeat the process with a one-way awards to find the cheapest one-way awards on DL and partners. Partner awards don't have roundtrip booking requirements, but they generally have advance purchase requirements like the low-level DL metal awards. As noted above, it's 60 days for the 85K partner awards to Asia. I believe VA is now the only partner where there are no advance purchase requirements and you can often find last minute inventory on VA for LAX-SYD in business class for 100K miles one-way.
Jul 26, 2019, 4:11 pm
#6
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Join Date: Sep 2003
Location: San Antonio
Programs: DL DM, Former AA EXP now AY Plat, AC 75K, NW Plat, Former CO Gold, Hilton Diamond, Marriott Titanium
Posts: 27,042
Skymiles and Flying Blue are different programs. Cheapest DL low-level awards have various requirements like advance booking, roundtrip booking (w/min stay or Sat night stay), day of travel, etc. (much like revenue fares). There can also limited time seasonal awards.
Don't know where EF gets it's data (I'm pretty sure DL doesn't expose it anywhere). DL D1/F awards book into classes that use class codes from the revenue buckets like OD, OI, OZ, etc. The award fare basis codes suggests there's a dual inventory check (as with discount domestic FC fares, C+, BE, etc). The cheapest D1 awards currently on PDX-Asia look to be CSVR900 awards for 90K each-way. The C indicates a D1 award, the 'V' is a class code (V is DL's lowest fare class for coach -- which suggest there must be both award OZ bucket and award coach V bucket to book these). The 'R' indicates a roundtrip booking is required and the fare rules note a 7-day min stay is required as well. They are good for Mon-Thu travel and are seasonally limited to Sep 6 - Dec 6 (found in the fare rules). The cheapest one-way D1 awards on DL metal are 120K CSV1200 awards (again, note the 'V' class which suggests the lowest level) and these have a 90-day advance purchase requirement. The cheapest awards on partner are 85K CSMH850 one-way awards. These have a 60-day advance purchase requirement.
Don't know where EF gets it's data (I'm pretty sure DL doesn't expose it anywhere). DL D1/F awards book into classes that use class codes from the revenue buckets like OD, OI, OZ, etc. The award fare basis codes suggests there's a dual inventory check (as with discount domestic FC fares, C+, BE, etc). The cheapest D1 awards currently on PDX-Asia look to be CSVR900 awards for 90K each-way. The C indicates a D1 award, the 'V' is a class code (V is DL's lowest fare class for coach -- which suggest there must be both award OZ bucket and award coach V bucket to book these). The 'R' indicates a roundtrip booking is required and the fare rules note a 7-day min stay is required as well. They are good for Mon-Thu travel and are seasonally limited to Sep 6 - Dec 6 (found in the fare rules). The cheapest one-way D1 awards on DL metal are 120K CSV1200 awards (again, note the 'V' class which suggests the lowest level) and these have a 90-day advance purchase requirement. The cheapest awards on partner are 85K CSMH850 one-way awards. These have a 60-day advance purchase requirement.
Main issue will be married segments. O maybe available on each agent, but not when priced together. (Married segments)
Jul 26, 2019, 5:17 pm
#7
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Join Date: Jan 2000
Programs: UA 1k, AA EXPLT, NZ GE, VA PLT Hyatt Diam, Marr Plat, HH Diam
Posts: 3,445
Fascinating stuff on the fare rules. Never realized that DL has 90 day adv requirements for their lowest one-way awards (which are still almost double the saver levels of AA and UA).
Has anyone compiled a listing of the rules for each of the major groupings (eg, D1 USA to Europe)? Eg, to get the lowest one way USA to Europe, 90 days adv is needed for DL flights and 60 days for partners?
Has anyone compiled a listing of the rules for each of the major groupings (eg, D1 USA to Europe)? Eg, to get the lowest one way USA to Europe, 90 days adv is needed for DL flights and 60 days for partners?
Jul 26, 2019, 6:58 pm
#8
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Posts: 23,053
I just checked Europe a few days ago. One-way low-level awards had been up to 105K on DL metal, but they are now 80K with 90-day advance purchase. They had a summer sale a few months ago for D1 awards to Europe for flights through Sep 6th for 128K miles roundtrip (roundtrip booking and Saturday night stay were required). These had a 60-day advance purchase requirement so they are no longer available. Awards on VS metal have 3 levels depending on advance purchase.
86K - CSMH860 - 60-day advance purchase
135K - CSMG1350 - 21-day advance purchase
160K - CSM1600 - no advance purchase
awards on AF/KL/AZ metal business are 75K one-way with a 60-day advance purchase required.
There's also a DL metal 100K (CSXR1000) each-way roundtrip award level with 60-day advance purchase and Saturday night stay requirement.
86K - CSMH860 - 60-day advance purchase
135K - CSMG1350 - 21-day advance purchase
160K - CSM1600 - no advance purchase
awards on AF/KL/AZ metal business are 75K one-way with a 60-day advance purchase required.
There's also a DL metal 100K (CSXR1000) each-way roundtrip award level with 60-day advance purchase and Saturday night stay requirement.
Jul 26, 2019, 7:04 pm
#9
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Join Date: Sep 2009
Location: Minneapolis: DL DM charter 2.3MM
Programs: A3*Gold, SPG Plat, HyattDiamond, MarriottPP, LHW exAccess, ICI, Raffles Amb, NW PE MM, TWA Gold MM
Posts: 100,404
I just checked Europe a few days ago. One-way low-level awards had been up to 105K on DL metal, but they are now 80K with 90-day advance purchase. They had a summer sale a few months ago for D1 awards to Europe for flights through Sep 6th for 128K miles roundtrip (roundtrip booking and Saturday night stay were required). These had a 60-day advance purchase requirement so they are no longer available. Awards on VS metal have 3 levels depending on advance purchase.
86K - CSMH860 - 60-day advance purchase
135K - CSMG1350 - 21-day advance purchase
160K - CSM1600 - no advance purchase
awards on AF/KL/AZ metal business are 75K one-way with a 60-day advance purchase required.
There's also a DL metal 100K (CSXR1000) each-way roundtrip award level with 60-day advance purchase and Saturday night stay requirement.
86K - CSMH860 - 60-day advance purchase
135K - CSMG1350 - 21-day advance purchase
160K - CSM1600 - no advance purchase
awards on AF/KL/AZ metal business are 75K one-way with a 60-day advance purchase required.
There's also a DL metal 100K (CSXR1000) each-way roundtrip award level with 60-day advance purchase and Saturday night stay requirement.
Does this mean that one cannot use DL miles for award tickets that include AF/KLM/AZ (coded I presume, as opposed to operated) flights without meeting the 60 day advanced purchase requirement? This would make it impossible to get to certain European destinations on DL award tickets unless one plans more than two months in advance.
Jul 26, 2019, 8:04 pm
#10
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Join Date: Jul 2003
Posts: 23,053
Does this mean that one cannot use DL miles for award tickets that include AF/KLM/AZ (coded I presume, as opposed to operated) flights without meeting the 60 day advanced purchase requirement? This would make it impossible to get to certain European destinations on DL award tickets unless one plans more than two months in advance.
Last edited by xliioper; Jul 26, 2019 at 8:17 pm