eneq

I very much agree with this. Delta has chosen to closely align their business with Korean Air. Delta clearly sees potential with a KE/DL partnership. So, it would reflect very poorly on Delta's judgement if the company they chose to partner with turns out to be a s***show (pardon my French). Also, with how much Delta has been relying on KE's intra-Asia network, this is very relevant to Delta and its operations.

Now, I'm not saying Korean is in shambles like others (especially certain aviation bloggers) try to portray. However, if Korean was to noticeably decline in both safety and service, and Delta continues to show unwavering support, it would be a very poor look on Delta's part. I understand the two are business partners, and you never want to throw a partner under the bus (especially when you rely on them for a large revenue stream). But in this hypothetical scenario, it would be in Delta's best interest to start pushing Korean to make some serious changes.

MSPeconomist

orlandodlplat

I simply don't understand how people here seem to think the KE incident is not a big flashing red light for all of us.

Here's what we have here:

--FA tries to do the right thing but in the process offends the Captain and the FO.
--FO complains to company about FA's "abusive language."
--Company demotes the FA who tried to do the right thing, while giving the captain who tried to drink a slap on the wrist, and evidently imposing no discipline on the FO.

This series of events would obviously be the cause of a dramatic chilling effect on all cabin crew, when it comes to reporting on unsafe conditions.

I see this as a HUGE issue with the culture of KE and its values of inclusion and respect for its team members.

At Delta, the main internal slogan drilled into every employee is: "Safety is our number one core value." For a whistleblowing FA to be demoted in a case like this flies in the face of that core value.

I'm sorry, but this is a BIG DEAL.

daloosh

This is definitely concerning, but since we don't have the full details, we can't really judge with any certainty. If the culture represses reporting up the chain on safety concerns, or minimizing whistleblower accounts, that could cause fatalities in the future.

On the other hand, we've seen minor incidents in all fields that are followed by a coverup, or blackmail or trying to influence people, and the later crime becomes the issue a punishment is based on.

Granted, it seems the entire incident reflects badly on KE, but to take it to an extreme, if the cabin crew manager got into an altercation and killed the first officer, the fact that the captain wanted a drink does not excuse murder.

BearX220

Wow. On KE we observed a clear racist / sexist hierarchy: a few Korean men traveling alone were fawned over, brought extra treats from first class, lots of simpering and brazen / literal butt-and-cleavage displaying. To the Caucasian men flying solo the FAs were formally, cautiously polite. Caucasian men sitting with wives / SOs got minimal, perfunctory service. Caucasian women (there were 3 in the J cabin) got no service at all; my wife had to bus her own tray back to the galley after lunch, and the FAs would not answer call buttons or even make eye contact. We laugh about it now, but would not book KE again.

moondog

We've all run into our fair share of rude Delta employees, but I would not describe Delta as a racist/xenophobic clan.

defrosted

All of us? I mean maybe all of us that fly to Asia.

I don't, so of all the things to be concerned about regarding Delta and it's partnerships/JV this is a very small deal in my world. I can respect it is a big deal to you, that is fair. But the logic leap to infer these incidents are proof of, or will lead to the degradation of Delta's safety policy is the only thing BIG in this story.

At the end of the day these are separate companies. I see the point of associating with bad companies, but you are blowing this way out of proportion in my opinion.

I will also submit that Westjet is an amazing company, perhaps with (arguably at least) a better culture than Delta, so if your so concerned with partnerships/JV having a negative impact on Delta, perhaps the reverse is true with great companies and it all evens out.

MSPeconomist

moondog

The post you replied to was about a KE FA. I'm guessing there isn't much risk of finding her on any MSP flights.

kavok

Dalewood

Overall, the forum must believe that the FA made all of this up. I remember a fair bit of outrage over flight crews smoking on board, yet so little on this..How did the pilot not get fired? I will take my chances with CI to SE Asia.

orlandodlplat

Nope, not a leap in logic.

DL funnels its customers, through the JV, onto KE flights. If KE's safety culture allows for whistle-blowers to be demoted, that's not a culture that will promote safety. And that is a big deal for DL.

I have no issue with DL's JVs and other partnerships. I fly on partners all the time. I also have flown several times on this particular partner, but will think twice before doing so again in the future.

defrosted

Yes it is a leap in logic. They are funneling you onto another company, so only those flying on the other company could realistically find this to be a big deal. I mentioned I realize this is a big deal for you, and I get that, but not all of us.

The leap in logic is saying the influence of the safety of their partner airline of 20,000 employees will override the culture of Delta's 80,000 employees. To your point if anything Delta will probably pressure KE to change. So these incidents could be catalysts for improvement not some big deal red flag of KE somehow eroding DL's safety culture.

The sky(team) is not falling.

CPMaverick

I've never flown KE and probably never will.

I don't see how this incident remotely affects those flying DL routes that don't involve KE.

If you fly KE then sure, it's notable. If you are holding a moral argument against DL for not trying to strongarm the decisions of it's partner, then sure, I guess I understand. But it hardly affects 'all of us', typical FT hyperbole.

Robert Leach

I think it is entirely relevant to this forum, even if you don't fly KE. One just sort of assumes that another company that rises to the level of a Joint Venture partner with Delta, and hence is effectively being endorsed by Delta, follows reasonable standards of service and safety, which includes a modern day safety culture.