MSP ground stop 7/15/19

Old Jul 15, 2019, 10:34 pm
  #16  
 
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Originally Posted by MSPeconomist
I'm guessing that a lot of crews timed out but decided that they would rasther agree to continue to get home rather than being stuck overnight in those outstations.
There is no "agreeing to waive" timeout - crews have either timed out or they haven't. That said, DL does try to add in buffer to crew timing within reason - most would be okay with anything less than a 2 hour delay (especially those that were then scheduled to fly a final leg with RON). Beyond that is when things start getting dicey.

I am sure that some flights are not making it to MSP tonight, but that should be the minority.
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Old Jul 15, 2019, 10:53 pm
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Seems like most of the diversions made it to MSP eventually tonight. The one I found that is still stuck was from CLT. Overnighting in Rochester and trying again at 7:45 tomorrow. Nothing like a 17 hour domestic flight!

Full list of all 55 diversions:
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Last edited by DLASflyer; Jul 15, 2019 at 11:00 pm
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Old Jul 16, 2019, 3:17 am
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Originally Posted by DLASflyer
Seems like most of the diversions made it to MSP eventually tonight. The one I found that is still stuck was from CLT. Overnighting in Rochester and trying again at 7:45 tomorrow. Nothing like a 17 hour domestic flight!

Full list of all 55 diversions:
https://twitter.com/jettipnet/status/1150936388629598208
I really feel like that should be an unload the plane, charter a couple buses and reposition in the AM.
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Old Jul 16, 2019, 7:39 am
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At least with most of the diversion airports, DL has the ability to send in a reserve crew on the last flight out of the evening from MSP to then fly in the diverted aircraft if the crew times out.
This happened a few weeks ago when a whole bunch of crews timed out in diverts at FSD, FAR, BIS, and GRB.
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Old Jul 16, 2019, 7:42 am
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We heard the three jets last night head over our neighborhood leaving MSN for MSP to finish their trips. At least we are used to getting 739s / 321s here.
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Old Jul 16, 2019, 8:53 am
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Originally Posted by ethernal
There is no "agreeing to waive" timeout - crews have either timed out or they haven't. That said, DL does try to add in buffer to crew timing within reason - most would be okay with anything less than a 2 hour delay (especially those that were then scheduled to fly a final leg with RON). Beyond that is when things start getting dicey.

I am sure that some flights are not making it to MSP tonight, but that should be the minority.
At least at AA (I'd imagine all airlines are similar), the company's (IE: union contractual) duty limits would be reached before the FAA limits.
Crews may elect to overfly the union limits. Operations can't ask them to do it, the crew has to state they will operate the trip.
FAA limits can't be exceeded. Both sets of limits are multi-layered and convoluted so it isn't always easy to determine if/when they time-out.

AA liked to use the term "illegal crew" to describe any crewmember exceeding any limit. Oh the explanations that had to be given after passengers hear that phrase come out of the Gate Agt's walkie talkie. Particularly after the crew states they'll operate the trip anyhow.
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Old Jul 16, 2019, 2:09 pm
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Originally Posted by ethernal
There is no "agreeing to waive" timeout - crews have either timed out or they haven't. That said, DL does try to add in buffer to crew timing within reason - most would be okay with anything less than a 2 hour delay (especially those that were then scheduled to fly a final leg with RON). Beyond that is when things start getting dicey.

I am sure that some flights are not making it to MSP tonight, but that should be the minority.
I was on a longhaul flight recently where the cabin crew told me that they could have opted out due to a bad delay, but they opted to continue so as to get their hours in without being forced to substitute some milk runs. Farther in the past, I recall a delayed laonghaul flight where some of the FAs stayed and others opted out and we got substitutes who were reassigned from another flight; it could not have been a difference in whether they had already worked a flight that day.
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Old Jul 16, 2019, 9:41 pm
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on a flight to MSP from right now and we are racing the storms to get there (7/16). Looks like a lot more coming.
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Old Jul 16, 2019, 10:50 pm
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I was on MSP-JAC on 7/15.......crew did a great job of getting out of MSP as fast as ATC would allow.....yes they needed to get to JAC as they were operating the outbound in the AM. We pushed back in MSP and thought we would get out but ATC shut everything down....this one was not Delta's flight at all and onboard crews did everything they could to keep people happy and informed.
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Old Jul 16, 2019, 11:03 pm
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Was stuck in this yesterday, really miserable.

1411 SFO>MSP was delayed arriving due to gate being occupied from a prior delayed flight. Wife and I had a tight connection to make it to 3310, MSP>DSM. Ran as quick as we could, with my 6 months pregnant wife, from G all the way to B, only to find out 3310 was delayed 30 mins due to missed crew connection. This is roughly 10:30PM.

Two gates down, overheard the prior DSM flight, 3465, was announcing final boarding. They had been delayed due to weather, so we asked if we could sneak onto it. Got seats, boarded, sat for 20 minutes. Captain announced they were unable to fly due to not being able to come out with a route that went around the storms and kept them under max hours. De-boarded at roughly 11:15PM. Other flight had been delayed further, but DL had rebooked us onto an 9:06AM departure the next day. Got a hotel room and called it a night. Woke up at 6:30 to make the 9am flight, only to find out it had been delayed until 1:06PM. Went back to sleep.

Luckily Trip Delay Insurance will cover everything, so it's no sweat off my back really, but man it was a late night.
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Old Jul 17, 2019, 8:06 am
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Originally Posted by steve64
At least at AA (I'd imagine all airlines are similar), the company's (IE: union contractual) duty limits would be reached before the FAA limits.
Crews may elect to overfly the union limits. Operations can't ask them to do it, the crew has to state they will operate the trip.
FAA limits can't be exceeded. Both sets of limits are multi-layered and convoluted so it isn't always easy to determine if/when they time-out.

AA liked to use the term "illegal crew" to describe any crewmember exceeding any limit. Oh the explanations that had to be given after passengers hear that phrase come out of the Gate Agt's walkie talkie. Particularly after the crew states they'll operate the trip anyhow.
Totally fair point that I had not considered. I was probably wrong with my comment - sorry @MSPeconomist for doubting you. ​​​​​​
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Old Jul 17, 2019, 10:32 am
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Originally Posted by shimps1
Was stuck in this yesterday, really miserable.

1411 SFO>MSP was delayed arriving due to gate being occupied from a prior delayed flight. Wife and I had a tight connection to make it to 3310, MSP>DSM. Ran as quick as we could, with my 6 months pregnant wife, from G all the way to B, only to find out 3310 was delayed 30 mins due to missed crew connection. This is roughly 10:30PM.

Two gates down, overheard the prior DSM flight, 3465, was announcing final boarding. They had been delayed due to weather, so we asked if we could sneak onto it. Got seats, boarded, sat for 20 minutes. Captain announced they were unable to fly due to not being able to come out with a route that went around the storms and kept them under max hours. De-boarded at roughly 11:15PM. Other flight had been delayed further, but DL had rebooked us onto an 9:06AM departure the next day. Got a hotel room and called it a night. Woke up at 6:30 to make the 9am flight, only to find out it had been delayed until 1:06PM. Went back to sleep.

Luckily Trip Delay Insurance will cover everything, so it's no sweat off my back really, but man it was a late night.
I would have hopped in the car and drove to Des Moines, a shade under 4 hours only. Would trip delay insurance cover that rental car? If so, even better.
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Old Jul 17, 2019, 12:48 pm
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Originally Posted by ethernal
And more importantly more predictable. A serious ground-stop causing thunderstorm can happen pretty much any afternoon/evening in the summer and throw ops into complete disarray with little to no warning.

I know in advance if I am flying into snow or similar and plan accordingly.
There are actually some decent tools for predicting the *probability* of TS (and turbulence) nowadays. During summer months, I always make sure to check https://aviationweather.gov/ if I'm going to be flying in the afternoon. Of course it's impossible to say exactly where/when a storm will occur, but it gives a pretty good summary of the TS probability and locations.
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Old Jul 17, 2019, 1:33 pm
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Originally Posted by Ebes1099
I would have hopped in the car and drove to Des Moines, a shade under 4 hours only. Would trip delay insurance cover that rental car? If so, even better.
Would not have covered the car. At least that's my understanding of the CSR benefits. I didn't want to be driving until 4AM through a storm, figured I'd just wait it out.
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Old Jul 17, 2019, 1:45 pm
  #30  
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There's a risk again today, and then super hot weather through the weekend. Some places apparently got lots of rain overnight, but I didn't see evidence of a drop.
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