Potential change in operating carrier. Refund?
Jul 14, 2019, 6:40 pm
#1
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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Potential change in operating carrier. Refund?
I’m pretty sure the answer to my question is “Yes” but wanted to double check the FT brains here.
A change of operating carrier on a segment entitles one to cancel for a full refund, correct?
I have a trip booked to SIN in September. Here’s how I booked it, and how it currently still is:
The outbound is ANC-SEA on DL metal, SEA-ICN on DL metal, ICN-SIN on KE metal.
The return is SIN-NRT-SEA-ANC all on DL metal.
I am wondering if we are about to see the SIN/NRT flight become less than daily this fall. While my itinerary shows no issues, and flight schedules show all is well, attempts to make a dummy booking on DL.com yields that the SIN/NRT flight no longer exists on my return date. Expertflyer shows no availability as well. Perhaps it didn’t make this round of Saturday schedule changes, but in the next week or so it might change.
Being proactive, I have taken a look at the return flights on KE I might be rebooked on out of SIN and the times/connections are horrid. Not to mention by routing ICN-SEA on the return would cause me to lose the A350 suite I have currently NRT-SEA.
Just thinking ahead at the possibility of getting a refund and booking something else IF the change does occur.
Dates in question for the return is Sep 18. Thanks all!
A change of operating carrier on a segment entitles one to cancel for a full refund, correct?
I have a trip booked to SIN in September. Here’s how I booked it, and how it currently still is:
The outbound is ANC-SEA on DL metal, SEA-ICN on DL metal, ICN-SIN on KE metal.
The return is SIN-NRT-SEA-ANC all on DL metal.
I am wondering if we are about to see the SIN/NRT flight become less than daily this fall. While my itinerary shows no issues, and flight schedules show all is well, attempts to make a dummy booking on DL.com yields that the SIN/NRT flight no longer exists on my return date. Expertflyer shows no availability as well. Perhaps it didn’t make this round of Saturday schedule changes, but in the next week or so it might change.
Being proactive, I have taken a look at the return flights on KE I might be rebooked on out of SIN and the times/connections are horrid. Not to mention by routing ICN-SEA on the return would cause me to lose the A350 suite I have currently NRT-SEA.
Just thinking ahead at the possibility of getting a refund and booking something else IF the change does occur.
Dates in question for the return is Sep 18. Thanks all!
Jul 14, 2019, 7:02 pm
#2
Join Date: May 2009
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If any sort of significant change happens - timing or operating carrier - you should be able to cancel for a refund, or you could ask for an alternative routing if there's something you'd prefer.
It does seem like NRT-SIN is absent on a couple midweek dates this fall. Feels fairly close in to departure for this to be put into effect - maybe it has to do with aircraft rotation for maintenance, or maybe they just didn't sell many seats on these days.
Sep 4, 9, 10, 11, 17, 18
Oct 3, 8, 23
Since the dates are so scattered, another possibility would be to shift your trip forward or back by a day - I suspect Delta would be able to accommodate that in case of a cancellation.
It does seem like NRT-SIN is absent on a couple midweek dates this fall. Feels fairly close in to departure for this to be put into effect - maybe it has to do with aircraft rotation for maintenance, or maybe they just didn't sell many seats on these days.
Sep 4, 9, 10, 11, 17, 18
Oct 3, 8, 23
Since the dates are so scattered, another possibility would be to shift your trip forward or back by a day - I suspect Delta would be able to accommodate that in case of a cancellation.
Jul 14, 2019, 9:09 pm
#3
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You might be able to ask DL to rebook you to SIN-ICN-MSP-ANC. The ICN-MSP nonstop on the 777 has D1 suites. It would be good for MQM earnings if this matters to you.
Jul 14, 2019, 9:18 pm
#4
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If any sort of significant change happens - timing or operating carrier - you should be able to cancel for a refund, or you could ask for an alternative routing if there's something you'd prefer.
It does seem like NRT-SIN is absent on a couple midweek dates this fall. Feels fairly close in to departure for this to be put into effect - maybe it has to do with aircraft rotation for maintenance, or maybe they just didn't sell many seats on these days.
Sep 4, 9, 10, 11, 17, 18
Oct 3, 8, 23
Since the dates are so scattered, another possibility would be to shift your trip forward or back by a day - I suspect Delta would be able to accommodate that in case of a cancellation.
It does seem like NRT-SIN is absent on a couple midweek dates this fall. Feels fairly close in to departure for this to be put into effect - maybe it has to do with aircraft rotation for maintenance, or maybe they just didn't sell many seats on these days.
Sep 4, 9, 10, 11, 17, 18
Oct 3, 8, 23
Since the dates are so scattered, another possibility would be to shift your trip forward or back by a day - I suspect Delta would be able to accommodate that in case of a cancellation.
Jul 14, 2019, 9:43 pm
#6
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Jul 14, 2019, 10:52 pm
#7
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Thanks all for the replies. So far my itinerary has not updated to reflect the SIN-NRT flight being cancelled for Sep 18. However DL.com booking engine and ExpertFlyer say it does not exist.
Looking at options if the change does occur, I might see if DL would allow me to move my entire trip forward. From Sep 12-18 to Sep 11-17. That should avoid the non-operating days, but that is also assuming they would not change again.
My husband and I are traveling together but on separate PNR's and some different cabins as well to further complicate things. Outbound we are both in First ANC-SEA, then Comfort+ SEA-ICN, and KE Economy ICN-SIN. For the return I am in Delta One SIN-NRT (whereas he is Comfort+), Delta One NRT-SEA (whereas he is in Main Cabin), and both in First SEA-ANC. Yeah, it's complicated.
Given the fare/cabin complexity I would say there is a strong chance it will just be simpler to take a full refund if the schedule change occurs, unless we luck out with a super agent that can keep us in the same cabins for the trip. This trip is just leisure, so not opposed to taking a refund and booking another destination. Although I just got some SGD's exchanged at the bank in anticipation of the trip.
And thanks MSP for the ICN-MSP suggestion. Maximizing MQMs would be great on this trip and should push me to making PM for the first time ever. I'll update this thread if/when the schedule change occurs and the route we take.
Looking at options if the change does occur, I might see if DL would allow me to move my entire trip forward. From Sep 12-18 to Sep 11-17. That should avoid the non-operating days, but that is also assuming they would not change again.
My husband and I are traveling together but on separate PNR's and some different cabins as well to further complicate things. Outbound we are both in First ANC-SEA, then Comfort+ SEA-ICN, and KE Economy ICN-SIN. For the return I am in Delta One SIN-NRT (whereas he is Comfort+), Delta One NRT-SEA (whereas he is in Main Cabin), and both in First SEA-ANC. Yeah, it's complicated.
Given the fare/cabin complexity I would say there is a strong chance it will just be simpler to take a full refund if the schedule change occurs, unless we luck out with a super agent that can keep us in the same cabins for the trip. This trip is just leisure, so not opposed to taking a refund and booking another destination. Although I just got some SGD's exchanged at the bank in anticipation of the trip.
And thanks MSP for the ICN-MSP suggestion. Maximizing MQMs would be great on this trip and should push me to making PM for the first time ever. I'll update this thread if/when the schedule change occurs and the route we take.
Jul 14, 2019, 11:00 pm
#8
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Upon further reflection, I think connecting to the MSP flight would mean a very long connection, enough to explore Seoul a bit. I don't know whether the airport still offers the free transit (bus) tours, but IIRC there are some "meet a local with similar interests" (who speaks English) individual excursions that can be booked in advance and are free, but of course you're expected to cover the volunteer's local public transportation expenses and treat them to any applicable meals in exchange for their time. [I don't remember the name of the program, but I think you can find it on the airport website.] Of course, it's easy to take an airport bus of the train/subway downtown for the day.
Jul 14, 2019, 11:06 pm
#9
Join Date: May 2009
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Thanks all for the replies. So far my itinerary has not updated to reflect the SIN-NRT flight being cancelled for Sep 18. However DL.com booking engine and ExpertFlyer say it does not exist.
Looking at options if the change does occur, I might see if DL would allow me to move my entire trip forward. From Sep 12-18 to Sep 11-17. That should avoid the non-operating days, but that is also assuming they would not change again.
My husband and I are traveling together but on separate PNR's and some different cabins as well to further complicate things. Outbound we are both in First ANC-SEA, then Comfort+ SEA-ICN, and KE Economy ICN-SIN. For the return I am in Delta One SIN-NRT (whereas he is Comfort+), Delta One NRT-SEA (whereas he is in Main Cabin), and both in First SEA-ANC. Yeah, it's complicated.
Given the fare/cabin complexity I would say there is a strong chance it will just be simpler to take a full refund if the schedule change occurs, unless we luck out with a super agent that can keep us in the same cabins for the trip. This trip is just leisure, so not opposed to taking a refund and booking another destination. Although I just got some SGD's exchanged at the bank in anticipation of the trip.
And thanks MSP for the ICN-MSP suggestion. Maximizing MQMs would be great on this trip and should push me to making PM for the first time ever. I'll update this thread if/when the schedule change occurs and the route we take.
Looking at options if the change does occur, I might see if DL would allow me to move my entire trip forward. From Sep 12-18 to Sep 11-17. That should avoid the non-operating days, but that is also assuming they would not change again.
My husband and I are traveling together but on separate PNR's and some different cabins as well to further complicate things. Outbound we are both in First ANC-SEA, then Comfort+ SEA-ICN, and KE Economy ICN-SIN. For the return I am in Delta One SIN-NRT (whereas he is Comfort+), Delta One NRT-SEA (whereas he is in Main Cabin), and both in First SEA-ANC. Yeah, it's complicated.
Given the fare/cabin complexity I would say there is a strong chance it will just be simpler to take a full refund if the schedule change occurs, unless we luck out with a super agent that can keep us in the same cabins for the trip. This trip is just leisure, so not opposed to taking a refund and booking another destination. Although I just got some SGD's exchanged at the bank in anticipation of the trip.
And thanks MSP for the ICN-MSP suggestion. Maximizing MQMs would be great on this trip and should push me to making PM for the first time ever. I'll update this thread if/when the schedule change occurs and the route we take.
Jul 15, 2019, 1:18 am
#10
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Rule 2 now says "Delta may substitute alternate Carriers or aircraft, change its schedules, delay or cancel flights, change seat assignments, and alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket as required by its operations in Delta’s sole discretion. Delta’s sole liability in the event of such changes is set forth in Rule 22." Rule 22 discusses refunds, but doesn't obligate them in this context. It'd probably take a lawyer to figure out if you are now entitled to a refund for operating carrier change, but if you are, then you are now also entitled to a refund if your seat assignments are changed...
Jul 15, 2019, 1:44 am
#11
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[/left]
Previously, the CoC had very clear language specifying that you are entitled to a refund if an operating carrier changed, you are downgraded, or there is a 90 minute+ change in schedule. That language appears to have all been rewritten. The 90 minute+ refund eligibility is still there in Rule 20. Refund for downgrade is sort of implied by Rule 20, but refund for operating carrier is at best ambiguous.
Rule 2 now says "Delta may substitute alternate Carriers or aircraft, change its schedules, delay or cancel flights, change seat assignments, and alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket as required by its operations in Delta’s sole discretion. Delta’s sole liability in the event of such changes is set forth in Rule 22." Rule 22 discusses refunds, but doesn't obligate them in this context. It'd probably take a lawyer to figure out if you are now entitled to a refund for operating carrier change, but if you are, then you are now also entitled to a refund if your seat assignments are changed...
Previously, the CoC had very clear language specifying that you are entitled to a refund if an operating carrier changed, you are downgraded, or there is a 90 minute+ change in schedule. That language appears to have all been rewritten. The 90 minute+ refund eligibility is still there in Rule 20. Refund for downgrade is sort of implied by Rule 20, but refund for operating carrier is at best ambiguous.
Rule 2 now says "Delta may substitute alternate Carriers or aircraft, change its schedules, delay or cancel flights, change seat assignments, and alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket as required by its operations in Delta’s sole discretion. Delta’s sole liability in the event of such changes is set forth in Rule 22." Rule 22 discusses refunds, but doesn't obligate them in this context. It'd probably take a lawyer to figure out if you are now entitled to a refund for operating carrier change, but if you are, then you are now also entitled to a refund if your seat assignments are changed...
My understanding is that USA DOT rules entitle one to a refund if there's a change of operating carrier, including from one DL Connection carrier to another. There are also regulations requiring refunds upon request if the schedule changes significantly, but I'm not sure whether the threshold is 90 minutes or not.
Jul 15, 2019, 2:04 am
#12
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Join Date: Feb 2015
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Posts: 1,855
Even if DL gave pushback on the change of carrier, any schedule change with this issue will definitely be more than 90 minutes. After doing more extensive research tonight I am inclined to push for a full refund and rebook with Singapore Airways. Finding a much better schedule ANC-SEA-SIN-SEA-ANC. Nonstop out of SEA, all booked via SQ. I would sacrifice earning DL miles, but it might be the simplest solution. Very similar fare as to our original tickets. Have never flown SQ, so it could be a fun excuse to give them a try.
Jul 15, 2019, 7:16 am
#13
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Previously, the CoC had very clear language specifying that you are entitled to a refund if an operating carrier changed, you are downgraded, or there is a 90 minute+ change in schedule. That language appears to have all been rewritten. The 90 minute+ refund eligibility is still there in Rule 20. Refund for downgrade is sort of implied by Rule 20, but refund for operating carrier is at best ambiguous.
Rule 2 now says "Delta may substitute alternate Carriers or aircraft, change its schedules, delay or cancel flights, change seat assignments, and alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket as required by its operations in Delta’s sole discretion. Delta’s sole liability in the event of such changes is set forth in Rule 22." Rule 22 discusses refunds, but doesn't obligate them in this context. It'd probably take a lawyer to figure out if you are now entitled to a refund for operating carrier change, but if you are, then you are now also entitled to a refund if your seat assignments are changed...
Rule 2 now says "Delta may substitute alternate Carriers or aircraft, change its schedules, delay or cancel flights, change seat assignments, and alter or omit stopping places shown on the ticket as required by its operations in Delta’s sole discretion. Delta’s sole liability in the event of such changes is set forth in Rule 22." Rule 22 discusses refunds, but doesn't obligate them in this context. It'd probably take a lawyer to figure out if you are now entitled to a refund for operating carrier change, but if you are, then you are now also entitled to a refund if your seat assignments are changed...
Jul 15, 2019, 8:06 am
#14
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Jul 15, 2019, 8:29 am
#15
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